[in the hills]

At what age should I attempt to castrate my Soay rams? 

I know the legal age is 7 days but will this be too soon for our little sheep?

An experienced farmer will do the deed. He thinks it should be possible by then but is used to commercials.

Any thoughts, please.

[Brijjy]

My ram lambs have been castrated in the first day or so. As long as you can feel the balls and get a ring round 'em properly. We ringed a big ram lamb today, he was only a day old and he made alot of fuss. Went very floppy and shaky. After 15 mins though he was back up on his feet. Two other rams not much bigger than rabbits were ringed with no bother to them at all. I don't think they even noticed.

[Fleecewife]

in the hills - this is a perennial problem with Soays.  Their testes are so tiny that even at the legal 7 days they are often too small to stay through the ring.  This can lead to a rig (ie one testis, or both, in the abdomen so sometimes fertile), if one pops back through, or even worse one can get stuck part way through the ring so as the testis grows it gets cut in half - must be agonising.  I have had many discussions about this with the Soay sheep society and the consensus is that it can be a welfare issue to ring them before 7 days as the law requires - a law which was probably made without consulting Soay breeders  .  Sometimes a larger than usual tup lamb can be ringed within the legal period, and your experienced farmer friend will be able to judge this when he goes to ring the lamb.  We have sometimes had to leave it until the lambs are three weeks old - and I will happily answer for that in Court if anyone wants to prosecute me.  We have never seen these older lambs experiencing more than fleeting pain.
If you explain all this to the chap doing the castrations he can make his own judgement at the time.

[in the hills]

Thank you. I will explain all of this and ask his opinion.

I did read on an American site that they did not castrate their Soay until 3-4 weeks of age.

My friend has said that he believes some commercials are castrated too early, leading to problems and setting them back so I am sure that he will understand.

[jaykay]

I used to do my commercial sheep at 36 hours old, I had to leave my Shetland lamb this time til 7 days and he was a big single...l.l

[Anke]

Yes it is the same problem with Shetlands, especially if you have triplets... The 7 day window is at times very tight... and I am not saying anything else on an open forum...

However in theory you could use the Burdizzo's in the autumn, but I have tried to speak to farmers round here and nobody uses it, they either ring or leave entire and sell young.

[jaykay]

The 7 day window is at times very tight... and I am not saying anything else on an open forum...

yes

We used a burdizzo last year on goat kids. Really horrible to do, and turned out, despite two nips done on each side, not to have worked - I had to have the boys done surgically at the vets later. I have given the thing away, I shan't ever use it again.

[Crofterloon]

Yes it is the same problem with Shetlands, especially if you have triplets... The 7 day window is at times very tight... and I am not saying anything else on an open forum...

However in theory you could use the Burdizzo's in the autumn, but I have tried to speak to farmers round here and nobody uses it, they either ring or leave entire and sell young.

My experience is similar with shetlands 7 days can be too quick although I did band a day old yesterday but
it was a cross.

Crofterloon

[piggy]

Last year was my first time lambing,i to have soays and as i luckily only had 2 boy lambs  i didn't bother to castrate as the plan was to move them to a different field so no need to worry,i also have hebs and had 3 boys and 3 girls lambs a very experienced friend who has had sheep for over 50 years came and did the deed for me, sold all but 1 boy so decided to keep him as he was a friendly chap! i had decided that the ewes wouldn't be put to the tup this year so as he was done it was fine to keep him with them,can you guess whats coming next!
yep hes tupped the 5 ewes by the size of them i would think they are due within the next couple of weeks.

[bigchicken]

I have been doing Shetlands for a few years now and never ever had to wait as long as seven days. My technique is to put the ring over the scrotum then use the thumb of my left hand to keep the balls from going back up and quickly releasing the ring checking that both balls are bellow the ring and the nipples are above simples. try to handle the lamb as gently as possible and do the job with care and as quickly as you can, if you miss then leave it to the next day to try again. How do others manage.

[Fleecewife]

It doesn't matter how quick and slick your technique is, if the testes themselves are too small then they can slip back through the ring.  You think you have done the job but then you get a result like piggy's 

[woollyval]

If you think shetlands are small you should try ouessants......

[jaykay]

Partly I need to grind the 'prongs' down shorter on my applicator I think - its the devils own job trying it get the ring off the prongs.

[Fleecewife]

If you think shetlands are small you should try ouessants......

Shetlands (and Hebs) have not been a problem for us, just Soay.  How do you manage with Ouessants?

[woollyval]

Lets say I do it when big enough.....too small and its a welfare issue!