NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)  (Read 5230 times)

colliewoman

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Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« on: April 06, 2012, 08:34:43 pm »
Hi all!

After getting a few more hens 14 days ago, one of the new un's has been odd. Saggy dirty bum and getting listless and VERY heavy. The lady who gave them to me said she had done this before and recovered in her own time and was brewing another 'episode' so to speak when we took them. (The lady could no longer keep them so rehomed them with us.)
THe chicken in question was a bluebelle and did indeed always have a mucky bum. I thought it was something sinister but as she was still eating and scratching about gave her a chance for a while.
Today she wouldn't range and just sat in the same spot in the sun. She would still eat, but nothing else.
I got my friend (I am still a wuss) to dispatch her for me and out of morbid curiosity opened her up for a look :-[
OH. MY. GODS!
Thank goodness we did let her go. I must have drained about a pint of amberish clear liquid from her abdominal cavity!
The following pics show what else I discovered.
The first is what appeared to be lots off shell-less, yolk-less eggs. These bubble eggs could be snipped away and remain intact without leaking. Some were large egg size and some were marble size and everything in between. There were DOZENS of the things ???

 


The second pic shows a sack, the size of an orange that contained what can only be described as looking like boiled egg yolk, masses of the stuff.




Neither bubbles nor yolky stuff had any particular odour.

Can anyone tell me if this is indeed an internal layer, or what it is?
Is there anyway I could have saved her? I am assuming that it would have killed her eventually?
What would have caused this?
Any info at all would be most gratefully received :'( :'(
We'll turn the dust to soil,
Turn the rust of hate back into passion.
It's not water into wine
But it's here, and it's happening.
Massive,
but passive.


Bring the peace back
Voss Electric Fence

Bionic

  • Joined Dec 2010
  • Talley, Carmarthenshire
Re: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2012, 08:02:48 am »
Yuk,
I have no idea but as I am getting a bluebelle today I will be very interested in the answer.
Sally
Life is like a bowl of cherries, mostly yummy but some dodgy bits

in the hills

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2012, 08:42:24 am »
Errrr.......... sorry I dont know what was going on there but it looks horrible. Poor hen.

 :(

suziequeue

  • Joined Feb 2010
  • Llanidloes; Powys
Re: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2012, 08:44:13 am »
WOW!!! You should show those pictures to your vet......

Well done for taking the time to do a post mortem and take pix.

Looks like egg bound syndrome. There's lots on the net about it: http://en.engormix.com/MA-poultry-industry/genetic/articles/egg-bound-syndrome-t1620/103-p0.htm

In the comments after the article there is a vet in India who seems knowledgeable. Might be worth sending the pix to him for confirmation....
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 09:10:17 am by suziequeue »
We do the best we can with the information we have

When we know better we do better

colliewoman

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Re: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2012, 11:53:20 am »
Well after a phone call to the vets and extensive research online, we have come to the conclusion that she was indeed an internal layer :'(
As far as I can tell from the various sources of info, a true internal layer can only be saved via surgery and then hormone injections to prevent any future egg laying ???

As I said before, only external symptoms were a dirty bum and swollen abdomen and listless behaviour, so if you find any of these, check it out pronto. I wish I had not given her a chance, and should have gone with my gut instinct :'( :'(
We'll turn the dust to soil,
Turn the rust of hate back into passion.
It's not water into wine
But it's here, and it's happening.
Massive,
but passive.


Bring the peace back

nic99

  • Joined Jul 2011
Re: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2012, 05:01:28 pm »
Wow, this is amazing! It has really gotten me wondering if one of mine has the same thing. Symptoms are exactly like you describe for yours. She has a mucky bum and goes quiet with a droopy tail for a while, but still eats, and then gets better again. As she has always seemed to recover, I have just left her to it. But we always joke about how fat she is, she is sooo much heavier than the others  :-\ She is an ex-bat and hasn't laid a single egg in the year that I have had her. I just assumed she was past her prime and prone to a dodgy tummy. She is having one of off periods at the moment. Do you think I should dispatch her (or rather get OH to do it)? It's always such a hard decision and I am loathe to do it in case I am wrong and she will recover and be fine again.

colliewoman

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Re: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2012, 07:09:48 pm »
My hen's abdomen, as well as being too heavy felt like a water balloon only tighter if that makes sense?
When I could have a proper look (ie when she was dead) it was obviously distended. If I had held her up I would have seen it when she was alive, but hadn't wanted to stress her.
If you are asking if I would dispatch her if it was my bird, yes I would rather than risk another going through that.
Having had her a year and no eggs...... they have to be going somewhere I would have thought.
Whether a vet could do anything I don't know, certainly the one I spoke to said it can be treated to an extent if caught early, but I personally won't risk it now having seen the insides of one so affected.
Other people may be able to give you a more unbiased view though, still a bit too soon for me.  :-\



Sorry edited to add;
Thank you everyone x
We'll turn the dust to soil,
Turn the rust of hate back into passion.
It's not water into wine
But it's here, and it's happening.
Massive,
but passive.


Bring the peace back

Penninehillbilly

  • Joined Sep 2011
  • West Yorks
Re: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2012, 12:35:45 am »
This looks very similar to a hen I had, seemed to be a bit slow so I picked her up, thought she was very fat, she was getting on a bit, I'd had her a few years and she did used to lay, but when she started mooching about looking miserable I did the deed, and opened her up. I don't remember much fluid, and not as just as many eggs, but a big solid mass of what looked like set scrambled egg (or yes, boiled egg yolk), she must have been very uncomfortable for quite a while.
I put it down to being egg bound, or an egg broke inside her and 'clogged things up?', but I could easily be wrong.

suziequeue

  • Joined Feb 2010
  • Llanidloes; Powys
Re: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2012, 06:45:39 am »
Quote
Do you think I should dispatch her (or rather get OH to do it)?

Sorry to seemed harsh nic99  - easier said than done and all that - but my answer would be - yes
We do the best we can with the information we have

When we know better we do better

manian

  • Joined Sep 2010
Re: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2012, 07:08:00 pm »
got me thinking
we have a light sussex who we have named baggy bum. vents clean and dry just baggy underneath with no feathers. checked her over- no lumps and my OH has seen her lay
hopefully not a problem like this with her  :-\

Do you think I should dispatch her (or rather get OH to do it)? It's always such a hard decision and I am loathe to do it in case I am wrong and she will recover and be fine again.

difficult decision, we have a salmon flaveourelle who has had a weeping sticky eye for over 3 weeks (clears and then gets worse). despite abx.
shes happy in herself though. but no sure what more to do.
Mx

colliewoman

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Re: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2012, 08:20:36 pm »
If her bum is clean, she isn't an internal layer (according to my research).
The muck build up isn't diarrhea, but simply the normal waste sticking because the hen isn't able to lift  her tail out of the way.
 ;)
We'll turn the dust to soil,
Turn the rust of hate back into passion.
It's not water into wine
But it's here, and it's happening.
Massive,
but passive.


Bring the peace back

chrismahon

  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Gascony, France
Re: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2012, 08:53:47 pm »
We have a 4 year old cream legabar with similar symptoms. Rear end gets very swollen and she stops laying, which has been happening for 3 years. In her case it is internal cysts that break and then flood the coop floor. She then lays a few days later. Like she did today!

colliewoman

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Re: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2012, 09:15:03 pm »

difficult decision, we have a salmon flaveourelle who has had a weeping sticky eye for over 3 weeks (clears and then gets worse). despite abx.
shes happy in herself though. but no sure what more to do.
Mx

Just spotted this bit!
Did you go to your vet for antib's? If so did they give you baytril?
If so, get a different one! I have been given baytril for chickens, rabbits, rats and other pets. It hasn't done a thing for any of them!
I don't know if it is just my bad luck, or if the stuff is as useless as I think, but definitely try a different antib ;)
We'll turn the dust to soil,
Turn the rust of hate back into passion.
It's not water into wine
But it's here, and it's happening.
Massive,
but passive.


Bring the peace back

Mel

  • Guest
Re: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2012, 07:49:24 am »
This is an odd post because recently I had to dispatch my Bluebelle with exactly the same symptoms,I done the autopsy and was almost identical,felt too large to be an egg and thought it was a tumor.

manian

  • Joined Sep 2010
Re: Internal Layer??? (Gross picture warning!!!!)
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2012, 08:21:39 pm »
thanks colliwobble,
i'm waiting for the vet to ring back as i was wondering the same. we change abx after 48 hours if not worked.
what do you suggest.
Mx

 

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