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Author Topic: Small welder advice please  (Read 6208 times)

Declan

  • Joined Sep 2009
  • Rathfriland, Co.Down
Small welder advice please
« on: April 04, 2012, 05:42:09 pm »
As a typical small- smallholder ive gathered the most magnificent amount of- lets face it- "junk" around me thinking "one day ill make this into a ???"
Well- its time now either to do something or bin the whole lot- Im looking for a small welder- i know nothing about welding but im willing to learn- can anybody offer me any advice on what type to buy- if i got one then i starting asking you all questions on how to use it.
You might be considering advising me to bring my "junk" to an engineering works but to be perfectly honest living in a farming area with all these magnificent new machines I think they will bust their rear ends laughing at me if they see me coming- i want to have a go myself- if it doesn't work out i can always sell it.
Thanks.

deepinthewoods

  • Guest
Re: Small welder advice please
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2012, 06:04:47 pm »
im no welder, but a friend of mine has been learning, he regretted buying the cheapest one, so my advise would be to get something good quality. failing that the scrap price for heavy is good!!

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Small welder advice please
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2012, 06:11:52 pm »
MiG stick tig or oxy acetylene that is the 4 types  cheap is always that cheap    depends on how much welding you are going to do   from less than a hundred pounds to several thousand   welding can be therapeutic or bloody annoying :farmer:

OhLaLa

  • Joined Sep 2010
Re: Small welder advice please
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2012, 06:24:27 pm »
Depends on the metal too. Some types of weld are hotter than others, and the last I heard you need a licence to buy the gas bottles for oxyacetylene, but the place renting the bottles out will have the up to date info on that.

Whichever you choose, buy a mask/goggles. And wear them, or you'll do your eyes in.

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Small welder advice please
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2012, 06:34:26 pm »
the licence is the rental agreement   for BOC anyway   and it is illegal to have them without a rental agreement  they are sold at sales but that is also illegal the small bottles for the porta pack does not have the same restrictions :farmer:

OhLaLa

  • Joined Sep 2010
Re: Small welder advice please
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2012, 06:48:02 pm »
That's it, u gotta have the paperwork to swap your bottles over.

chrismahon

  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Gascony, France
Re: Small welder advice please
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2012, 06:58:30 pm »
I have a 3KW electric stick welder -SIP140. Had it for nearly 40 years now and have used it a lot. Stick welding isn't easy. The sticks/rods, if damp, won't arc and weld to the workpiece. I put ours in the oven to dry. Have just bought a photosensitive welding mask which means you only need two hands not three. You need to weld to clean metal as the flux on the rods can only lift a tiny amount of rust. Better still is a MIG welder. Easier to use altogether and more tolerant of weld preparation and surface condition. More expensive of course and needs a bottle of CO2 and reels of filler wire. Biggest problem is dirt onn the wire causing the feed to jam. For rough work outside a stick welder is the thing. If you are in a clean workshop MIG is the way to go.

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Small welder advice please
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2012, 07:19:28 pm »
i would disagree chrismahon   all welding needs proper preparation to work effectively  all welding is expensive MiG or gas oxy acetylene  is best for sheet steel     a welder friend once said a trained monkey could MiG weld  :farmer:

Declan

  • Joined Sep 2009
  • Rathfriland, Co.Down
Re: Small welder advice please
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2012, 08:50:27 pm »
Thanks for all that- chrismahon- its only for rough bits of work so maybe the stick welder is the way to go.  I would also take on deepinthewoods advice and maybe go for something middle of the range- I would hope to err on the side of "therapeutic"  and not "bloody annoying" 
Super advice from you all- thanks a million for that.

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Small welder advice please
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2012, 10:04:05 pm »
try and get an oxford or a pickhill oil colled welder    everybody wants migs now and they were very good if the oil level never went down and they sell for less than these thermal cut out welders that are basically crap  i burned out 2 of them before buying a new pickhill but i much prefer the mig far more versatile cooler and quicker      find out where your nearest BOC welding centre is  and take it from there :farmer:

Norfolk Newby

  • Joined Aug 2009
  • West Norfolk, UK
Re: Small welder advice please
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2012, 10:09:17 am »
Following Chrismahon's thoughts, I would add that a small - say 100amp rated AC welder (the output is an alternating current) - is a very useful basic welding set.

You can join steel up to about 1/4" thick reasonably well. You can add a carbon electrode to the welder to use it for brazing. This allows you to join thinner sheet steel by melting brass rods with a powder flux. This is something like super strong solder. Welding anything thinner than 1/8" thick is very tricky as the current will just melt away the steel before you can make a join unless you are very experienced. But you can make a brazed joint in thin steel quite easily this way and you do not need an oxy-acetylene or propane burner and gas bottles.

You can get special welding rods which you can use to rebuild worn parts. The weld metal is built up in layers on things like the tips of mole and ordinary ploughs, the teeth on back-hoe buckets, etc.

Now a basic welder set like this will probably require its own 30amp socket. This isn't difficult to get installed but a standard 13amp plug and socket won't cope.

If you want to go further into welding, you can get a DC (Direct Current) set. This lets you choose whether the welding torch is positive or negative. For a trained welder, this allows more control for different jobs.

You can also get many different types of welding rod for special jobs like welding upside down. I doubt this is of interest but it is nice to know there are options if you need to tackle something that is fixed - like the steel in a building or on a big vehicle.

MIG (Metal Inert Gas) and TIG (Tungsten Inert Gas) welding sets are used for more special sorts of welding. They are more expensive but you can do things like welding aluminium and stainless steel. Some of these sets use carbon dioxide when welding thin steel and some use an inert gas like argon. The latter is pretty expensive, CO2 is fairly cheap.

If you buy a basic welding set and find it tricky, don't be put off. It is easiest to start with a strip of something like angle iron held in a bench vice. Weld along a flat horizontal line to practice. Striking the arc by touching the tip of the welding rod on one of the strips sounds easy but the tip will stick until you get the trick of touching them and instantly lifting the rod to create a small gap in which the arc forms.

Once you have mastered this trick, practice creating a smooth regular line of weld by gently rotating the tip of the welding rod over the small pool of molten metal on the surface of the angle iron.

If you are right handed, point the tip of the welding rod at about 45 degrees to the left and create the line of weld steadily from the left end of the join. That way the weld can be seen from above through the mask.

Sorry if this is turning into a long story but there are a few little things worth mentioning.

NEVER look at the arc. This will give you arc eye. This normally comes later in the day and is like sunburn on the retina of the eye. It can be very painful and leave permanent damage. Keep children and animals away from the area at all times.

Be careful about the spray of molten metal that comes from the welding process. it will set fire to wood, straw paper etc. It will also burn you and make holes in your clothes!!

Keep a full bucket of cold water at your side. You can immediately cool any burnt part of your anatomy in it and put out small fires before they take over.

You should wear leather gauntlets and a leather or heavy canvas apron or overalls to protect yourself and your clothes when welding.

Some clamps are very useful to hold metal together temporarily while you weld them. The welding rod sticking to the metal will misalign any parts not securely clamped. It is often best to make small welds along a long join before trying to create a large structure. These are called tack welds. They stop the parts distorting as you weld. Otherwise you can start with straight pieces and finish up with something with a slight curve where the metal has expands as it is heated and then if fixed in that position by the weld as it cools.

You need to clean off the layer of slag formed from the coating on the weld rod before making another weld over the top or starting from a previous weld. Also clean off the slag before painting. This is done with a small hammer and a wire brush.

Sorry again if this sounds too much. But a little trial and error will get you welding and the benefits are significant if you have to make tools or repair them. You get a stock of old pieces of metal which you can convert into useful equipment with very little effort.

Good Luck







Novice - growing fruit, trees and weeds

chrismahon

  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Gascony, France
Re: Small welder advice please
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2012, 08:11:58 pm »
Following on from Norfolk Newby's excellent guide. We have a Carbon arc brazing attachment which runs at about 50 amps. A 100 amp welder will only do 50 amps continuous, above that the set will overheat and burn out. Advantage is the weight though. Our 140A unit will do 80A continuous so the carbon arc torch is well within its capabilities even at high ambient temperatures -it's very heavy! I was using it this weekend to repair our rotovator exhaust which is less than 1mm thick. Get the 5/16" rods and make sure they are soft cored which give a direction or flame effect to the arc. Tried out the new mask as well which is light sensitive so it darkens immediately the arc is struck leaving two hands free, one for the torch and one for the brazing rod.

Great fun welding, until you pick up the wrong end of something!

Moleskins

  • Joined Sep 2009
  • England
Re: Small welder advice please
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2012, 11:20:49 pm »
Keep yourself covered, the arc is UV and you get badly 'sunburned' from it.
Time flies like an arrow but fruit flies like a banana.

 

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