[Moleskins]

I've got 2 ewes with no or next to no milk. One has a single lamb the other has triplets, I've been topping up with Lamlac and giving some extra cake for a couple of days now but no improvement. I was hoping the milk would come in.
Any suggestions before I finish up with at least 3 pet lambs, the one with triplets may manage one.

[jaykay]

None at all? Discovered because you couldn't milk any out or because the lambs were hungry?

I ask because I think nervous ewes sometimes won't let down milk when scary humans are present and of course, there's not much volume in the first day or so.

I would have thought my Shetland ewe just lambed hadn't any milk because I couldn't get any and I never see her lamb feed. But clearly feed he does, cos he has a full belly every time I pick him up, he's growing and pinging about the barn full of energy.

Are they drinking well is the other thing that struck me, I find hill sheep, used to running water, can be funny about water in buckets.

Don't know if any of this applies, so ignore if necessary 

[SallyintNorth]

Everything jaykay says, plus:

Are they on good grass with plenty of sun?  Nothing makes milk like growing grass!

Did the ewes have minerals during pregnancy?  Even if they did, it won't hurt to give them some more.

Otherwise, I can only echo jaykay's comments - and stress that lactating sheep need literally gallons of fresh water to produce copious quantities of milk, and that even if the udder always seems empty, even if the lambs are pestering her, only worry this early on if the lambs are genuinely concave rather than convex, and are crying with hunger rather than just chancing it whenever they get an opportunity. 

Having said which, unless your triplets mum has condition score 3 minimum and a good big bag, I think you maybe better look at taking one off her now.

What breed are they?

[Moleskins]

Thanks for the replies, I'd had them in because of the weather and obviously had to give them a bucket of water. Plus they were lambed inside, but let out during the day. The lambs are getting some milk I'm sure but I don't think they're getting enough and every time I try to see if there's milk I get next to nothing out.
They've had hay, cake and a mineral lick over the Winter and I've been continuing to give them cake since lambing.
Lambs are not starved and standing hunched but will take extra from a bottle.
Triplets are from a Gotland and the single is a Ryeland.
I'm going to keep topping up I think as I don't want an out and out pet lamb to cope with, as adults they're a pain too. However I'm going to have to consider taking one off the Gotland if things don't seem to be improving.

[feldar]

We've got a Llanwenog with only one quarter and a twin on, we just keep her in for now and she's coping well, lambs are not starved but we know if we let her out the lambs would go backwards with the added pressure of following mum and all the other factors of being in a big field with other sheep.
As soon as they are eating creep and old enough we will pull the lambs off.
Can't you keep your ewes in for now and monitor the lambs, if they look fat enough and happy they must be getting something.

[jaykay]

The thing about milk is that it's pretty much a supply and demand thing, so if you supplement the lambs, they won't insist on more from the ewe and she won't produce it. Triplets may be hard to keep up with of course.

The one with the single wouldn't like a Gotland lamb too then? (if any of mine are silly enough to have only singles when there are newly born triplets about, they don't get a choice  )

[SallyintNorth]

We've got a Llanwenog with only one quarter and a twin on, we just keep her in for now and she's coping well, lambs are not starved but we know if we let her out the lambs would go backwards with the added pressure of following mum and all the other factors of being in a big field with other sheep.
As soon as they are eating creep and old enough we will pull the lambs off.
Can't you keep your ewes in for now and monitor the lambs, if they look fat enough and happy they must be getting something.

Rare it is that I am not in complete agreement with something that feldar says. 

I guess it must be a region / climate thing, but here in the far north of England, you simply can't get a ewe to milk fully if you keep her in; she needs grass.

I don't know where you are moleskins - but if nearer to feldar than me, listen to her, not me, on this one!

[SallyintNorth]

The one with the single wouldn't like a Gotland lamb too then? (if any of mine are silly enough to have only singles when there are newly born triplets about, they don't get a choice  )

Interesting... I only try rubbing in (or jacketing in dead lamb's skin) a spare lamb on a single when the following apply:

• adoptive mum is a first-timer, and/or a very motherly-love type / breed - eg., I would on a shearling mule but not on a 3-crop mule and probably never on a Swaledale
• the adoptive mum birthed twins, one was born dead, and I can fool her this lamb is that dead one, back to life - and she'd still need to be a very motherly-love type / breed
• in all cases, only if I am there at the time of birth or very very soon after with the dead twin scenario.  I wouldn't try to add a second lamb to a ewe who's bonded with her first and only born

If you can do it in wider scenarios (other than using an adopter for a week, which knowing you jaykay I doubt is the case!  ), please share your techniques!

[VSS]

Interesting... I only try rubbing in (or jacketing in dead lamb's skin) a spare lamb on a single when the following apply:

• adoptive mum is a first-timer, and/or a very motherly-love type / breed - eg., I would on a shearling mule but not on a 3-crop mule and probably never on a Swaledale

Funny how we do things differently - we would avoid fostering on to a shearling/ first lamber if we could. An older ewe is generally a better bet, knows her stuff.

It goes without saying of course, that you never foster onto anything unless you have checked she has got oodles of milk!
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[jaykay]

I could pretty much always get a Rough having a single to take another lamb, by taking the triplet and smearing it with the birth fluids and getting her to clean it up - if very lively tying front legs together while she does this so it can't hop about too soon and give the game away. Had reasonable success adding one to the family the day after, by tying her up and getting the triplet to feed. Maybe Roughs are just fond of lambs generally........who knows with Shetlands  Hopefully not necessary this year as none scanned for triplets.

Sally, you say yours won't produce milk unless on grass - have you got grass growing then, cos we haven't really, even with the hot weather previous to this snow. I'm hoping for grass on turnout but that could be two or three weeks away yet and they'll have been on hard feed and hay in the meantime. A breed thing - Swales and mules insist on grass?

[feldar]

We've got a Llanwenog with only one quarter and a twin on, we just keep her in for now and she's coping well, lambs are not starved but we know if we let her out the lambs would go backwards with the added pressure of following mum and all the other factors of being in a big field with other sheep.
As soon as they are eating creep and old enough we will pull the lambs off.
Can't you keep your ewes in for now and monitor the lambs, if they look fat enough and happy they must be getting something.

Rare it is that I am not in complete agreement with something that feldar says. 

I guess it must be a region / climate thing, but here in the far north of England, you simply can't get a ewe to milk fully if you keep her in; she needs grass.

I don't know where you are moleskins - but if nearer to feldar than me, listen to her, not me, on this one!

OOh! disagree away that's how we all learn!
It was the lesser of two evils for us. We have no grass down here, so it was really taken out of our hands. The ewes have to walk quite a distance to get a feed and these two little ones just wouldn't be able to keep up so in they stayed, but i do agree grass, is the best option and if we had it they would have gone out even with a single quarter!
In fact talking of grass are we ever going to get any!! got no snow either

[Moleskins]

The thing about milk is that it's pretty much a supply and demand thing, so if you supplement the lambs, they won't insist on more from the ewe and she won't produce it.

The one with the single wouldn't like a Gotland lamb too then?

Didn't realise that milk was supply and demand, I've been topping up by about 110ml per lamb per day and the ewes have been under pressure from the lambs as they are suckling more than normal. So hopefully I haven't overdone it.
The Ryeland with a single is barely producing enough for her own ( Ryelands are normally very milky ) so I can't give her another. My next one due to lamb is scanned for twins so she's out and the one after that is a shearling due a single but not for a while yet. Hence mothering one on anywhere is a no go.

Update. Ryelands single stood up this morning and had a good stretch ! 

[SallyintNorth]

Sally, you say yours won't produce milk unless on grass - have you got grass growing then, cos we haven't really, even with the hot weather previous to this snow. I'm hoping for grass on turnout but that could be two or three weeks away yet and they'll have been on hard feed and hay in the meantime. A breed thing - Swales and mules insist on grass?

I think I said they won't milk fully indoors - they'll give some milk, of course, but if you need them in full milk, eg, to rear triplets, we find they need to be on grass. 

Yes we have a bit of growth here - our grass will grow if we get about 10 degrees C, especially if we get some sun, and extra especially if the ground isn't completely dry.  We've had a few days like that (as well as 24 hours of bleak midwinter!) in the last fortnight.  We have several fields well rested over winter ready for the spring lambs; we move the mothers into the lusher fields as they lamb, keeping the stocking levels very low until the grass really gets going.

2010 was a different story - we had a really cold spring and hardly any grass until mid-May.  Practically no-one raised triplets successfully that year - just one Leicester, I think.

I don't know how milky a Shetland is, but since many people (including BH's cousin) say they can comfortably lamb and rear Texel cross twins, I guess they are pretty milky.  And I assume that pure Shetland lambs will be less demanding than Texel crosses, being smaller and slower-growing.  So hopefully you'll be okay! 

[Haylo-peapod]

For the past week I've had a similar problem to moleskins with a shearling with no milk. Initially she would scarcely drink/eat after lambing and consequently had literally one drop of milk from each teat. One of the teats would then give up a drop of blood yet the udder did not show the classic signs of mastitis as it was soft and pink - the only abnormality seemed to be a small amount of fibrous tissue half way up the teat.

I've given her antibiotics, treated her for mastitis 'just in case' and have put her out on grass. She is now eating and drinking fine but still does not appear to be letting down the milk. I have been supplementing the lamb who sometimes seems very hungry yet at other times she doesn't. So I don't know what's going on.

I've read that oxytocin sometimes lets the milk down, is this something I should be considering?