[fleurky]

Hi all,
Again sorry for not looking for the answer which is no doubt here somewhere - time is short!
I have a very small lamb, 4 days old.  He's had colostrum, has been bottle fed at the farm, but due to his diminutive size and thus zero value, he has come home with me.
I continued to feed him on my own powdered ewes milk - wrongly it seems - as he developed scour. I have had him on electrolytes for the last 24 hrs, his last poo was this morning and was still squitty, nothing since (lots of wee so all ok there) and he is bright and communicative.  Now the big question is, do I now dilute the milk powder and start on a  weak formula or full strength? I have a bag of the formula used at the farm - will not try to carry on with the sack I bought - or should I, am I starting with a blank canvess after the electrolyte? Humm.  Getting conflicting advice, and want to put him back on milk later this afternoon. 
Be everso and hugely grateful for any help here!
Many thanks!
Fleur.

[doganjo]

I know nothing about sheep other than raising an abandoned lamb last year.  If he is very small is it possible you tried to give him too much in a feed and that is what scoured him?  The one I had was on 100  to 150mls five or six times a day.  he didn't seem a  big lamb but as I said i have nothing to base these thoughts on.  Just trying to help as no-one has come back to you yet.  Little and often is what I'd do with a puppy.

[SallyintNorth]

Annie is right on there - little and often, especially after scouring.  Make sure there's water available - they will lap it if they need it.

Personally I would use Rehydion, which is electrolytes that can be mixed with water or with milk, so then you can reintroduce the milk very gently while being sure they are getting their electrolytes.  But if you've given 24 hours of PSF or similar and the scour has dried up, then try a little feed of weak milk - maybe just over half, less than 2/3 strength, and a few hours later the same again.  If no scouring, you can work up to full strength and full size meals over the next 24-48 hours.

I'm not sure what to say about which milk powder to use - if you could get Rehydion, then you would be introducing the milk so gradually that I would have thought either would be ok.  But if you're going straight to milk, albeit weakened, perhaps the one it'd been used to would be better.  Sorry I can't be more definitive - hopefully someone who knows that one will be along soon.

Good luck
Sally

[janeislay]

I've always started orphan lambs on evaporated milk - diluted as per instructions - for at least the first few days, prior to getting them onto powdered milk.  It never failed me once.

[Haylo-peapod]

Wow, that's a new one on me.
I'd better not try it tho' - I'd be tempted to have a quick guzzle myself   

[fleurky]

Thank you all soooo much for your advice.  I had been told that you shouldn't feed diluted formula - something about not clotting - which threw me a bit.  I have given Norris 100ml of 1/4 diluted powder (used the farmers one just to be on the safe side) at 7pm.  He didnt seem very keen after the electrolyte, silly thing, and I suspect I'll give him another 100ml before bed and then see if we have an exploding digestive system in the morning. Do those amounts sound right for a teeny lamb of 10" high? (Must weight him.) If he's still squitty do I assume he has a bacterial infection and get him to the vet? Anyone heard of giving them a probiotic? Thanks again, i will do doubt be seeking your help often! =)
http://www.accidentalsmallholder.net/forum/Smileys/default/wave2.gif

[hexhammeasure]

with weak lambs temperature of milk is more important at the beginning take care its not too hot that can cause scour too

[SallyintNorth]

Do those amounts sound right for a teeny lamb of 10" high? (Must weight him.) If he's still squitty do I assume he has a bacterial infection and get him to the vet? Anyone heard of giving them a probiotic?

The amount depends in part on the powder you are using; the ones I use are max 1L per lamb per day, others on here use ones that are max 1.5L per lamb per day.  My rule of thumb is that from about a week old I expect any healthy orphan lamb to be consuming at least a half of the maximum per lamb per day - these are commercial lambs, that'll grow to 40-45kg liveweight in 3-4 months, smaller breeds would likely be less gutsy!

In the case of your recovering lamb, I think 100ml at a time of dilute formula is fine at this stage - again, please make sure that fresh water is available to him at all times.  If he isn't scour-y tomorrow, you can start to increase the strength and size of the feeds over the next couple of days.  From what you've said and done so far, it sounds to me like you have a good instinct for this - trust it. 

Powdered colostrum contains probiotics (or at least, some do) - is that what you meant?

If he scours again, sorry to be a broken record, but I would get Rehydion and try that, as it is designed to be used with water or milk or anything in between, so you can make sure he's getting all his electrolytes and essential nutrients while gradually getting his system used to milk. 

The trouble with starting with antibiotics is that they will kill off the gut bacteria that help him digest his food [question to VSS or jaykay or anyone else more knowledgeable than me on ruminant biology : is that right?  they're not ruminant in the early stages - are gut bacteria still involved?]

Let us know how you get on - good luck 

[fleurky]

Something really crappy happened.  He managed to get out of his warm snug box in the night and squeezed through to the utility  I found him early this morning very very cold and floppy, though still alive.  Worked desperately to warm him and get him going but to no avail.  Its bloody awful when its completely your own fault.   What a crap day. Sorry about the cussing.  Super depressed =(.  thank you all so much for your advice.  I suspect there will be more little weak ones from the farm so I'll no doubt be back. 

[jaykay]

NOT your fault, you provided him with the warm bed. They do say that a sheep's main aim in life is to meet its Maker and a shepherd's is to delay that happening!

Sorry he didn't make it 

[fleurky]

Thanks so much for that Jaykay. I have heard something like that before - sheep are born to die.  I really didn't think he could fit through into the other room, so a massive lesson learnt, but very sad.  He was my third lamb - and the one with most promise even if tiny, I became very attached to him.  The other two also didn't make it (all from the no hope box at a local 650 ewe farm), but I really really need one to survive before the seasons over! The farmer has kindly offered me a healthy one - but thats not the point!  So, to Norris, sorry buddy - epic fail, but I learnt alot.

[Moleskins]

Bottle feeding lambs is something of a mugs game - hard to succeed with a strong one let alone a weak one. My advice would be to take the healthy one on offer and save on the heartache.

[SallyintNorth]

I completely agree with moleskins.  It'll give you a lot of good experience and, even more importantly, some confidence, to take on a healthy one and raise it.  When you've a few of those under your belt you can try a few more tricky ones - but, with these, like the rest of us, you have to expect to fail probably 80%, or more, of the time.

Sorry to hear about this one - absolutely not your fault.  Although I bet your next one finds itself in Lambie Knox! 

[fleurky]

Thanks all, the 80 % mortality thing has made me feel slightly better - which sounds wrong! Unfortunately I didn't read this before going back to do my duties on the farm.  have come back with an enthusiastic paraplegic one and possibly a blind one.  Mostly concerned about the latter who has already developed scour after 2 small feeds - is this usual? Sigh. Bambi is learning to walk and managed to get herself up this morning so  i have some faith in that one.  Going to whizz off and get some Rehydion - assuming thats a vet thing not a farm shop product? Also assuming I can give it to the better lamb as a tonic as Bambi is too wobbly and thrashy to leave water container in pen. So much to learn. 
Farmer has said he will pass on the few larger lambs which will no doubt become orphaned over the next few weeks due to the 1 million and 1 diseases known to sheep. Said if I manage to kill one of those, I'm sacked! So incredibly grateful for all of your advice. Keep it coming!

[SallyintNorth]

Yes we get Rehydion from the vet, but your agri merchant may be able to supply it.  The key is to add the Rehydion just as you are about to put the bottle in the lamb's mouth; I take the 2ml of Rehydion or whatever I need for this feed down to the pet pen with me, squirt it into the bottle and feed straight away.

We get the odd 'flopbot' lamb - just too floppy to stand.  More often than not, they do come right in time, but I had one never stood for two weeks.

I've a blind pet lamb right now; she can see a bit of light and dark, I think, and is clever using her nose and ears, and is managing with the pets.  But I had to take her off her mum as the lamb kept wandering into danger without realising.  I am hoping she will manage ok with the pet lambs; she'll be for the local abattoir in our own trailer with 4 friends if she makes it that far.