[Fronhaul]

Or rather not so little orphan now.

Squawks is now over 2 months old and down to 2 feeds a day.  And I am in an agony of indecision over him.  Common sense tells me that he will be too much of a handful to retain.  But then I look at him and remember his breeding and the reason I bought his Mother.  And he is in many ways the image of his championship winning Mother.  Good bone, he certainly has length and power, he is correctly marked, correct mouth, for my personal preference I would like to see a little more black on him but others like less than I do.  Had his Mother survived I would have had no hesitation is marking him up as having show potential and registering him and indeed using him myself or offering him for sale.

I know people say that retaining orphans ends in tears.  But I would really welcome some comment please.  I have spent literally hours going over this lamb and I really do not know what to do.  It may be that as he develops further he will rule himself out but at this point in time he definitely has the potential to make it.

[suziequeue]

Why does retaining orphans end in tears?

I mean, I can understand tears if the lamb eventually goes to market - but I would have thought if he was going to stand as a show ram - then being used to humans would be an asset.

I think you should go for it but I am not an experienced sheep shower or orphan sheep rearer or anything like that.

We just have a weeny flock of badger-faced sheep

[doganjo]

I only know about dogs, but emotion takes a huge part in breeding.  If you think he has potential at this stage and you have confidence in your opinion why allow him to be removed from the gene pool?  If you feel you can handle him when he is an adult then keep him, or if not,  ensure he goes somewhere that will show/breed from him.  That has always been my opinion in dogs.

[suziequeue]

But then I look at him and remember his breeding and the reason I bought his Mother.  And he is in many ways the image of his championship winning Mother.  Good bone, he certainly has length and power, he is correctly marked, correct mouth

If you think he has potential at this stage and you have confidence in your opinion why allow him to be removed from the gene pool?

Come on...... you know it makes sense 

[SallyintNorth]

My only question would be, why is he an orphan?  If the mother didn't have enough milk, or kept having triplets, or it was some other reason that could be an hereditary thing you wouldn't want to pass on in Squawks' genes (great name by the way  , I shall use that one!), then of course don't keep him on for breeding.

A lot of people say orphan ewe lambs are hard to get in lamb and don't make good mothers - well two years ago I sold 6 pet ewe lambs to a neighbour who wanted to start a little flock that way, and this year they have had a super lambing and, although some needed a little guidance to get the hang of 'breast feeding', they have all been super mums.

The only other factor would be a pet lamb can be a bolshy lamb with insufficient 'respect' for its human handlers - and that's not a good idea with a full-grown ram.  But if you make sure Squawks learns his manners while he's small enough, you could get over that.

[Fronhaul]

His Mother was 7 when he was born, and developed mastitis when 2 of her triplets died.  It was the only time in her life she had had triplets and several of her ewe lambs have been retained by the flock where she was bred.  So no obvious genetic issues.  In fact I was looking at some of the offsprings' lambs only a couple of weeks ago.

He is going to be a handful without a doubt but I am tempted to halter train him and see if we can get him some manners and then take the final decision on him at the same time as we look at the other two Jacobs on the short list to register.  By that time the decision may have made itself one way or the other.  His Mother had an outstanding temperament and his sire is totally trustworthy when food isn't involved so he should have the capacity to learn some respect. 

[zwartbles]

It seems that Squawks is eveything that you wanted his mother to produce. Given good health as he develops it would seem no there is no reason why he shouldn't achieve what you want from him. If he becomes too big and strong for you there shouldn't be a problem finding a good home for him. Good luck !!

[suziequeue]

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=mrs+doyle+&view=detail&mid=F27238CEF0C3292C0728F27238CEF0C3292C0728&first=0

[jaykay]

I'd keep him then, but he does need to learn manners. The tup that gave me the black eye had been handled a lot by the kids on the farm where he was bred. I think it made him too 'friendly' which translated as bolshy as he got bigger.

[Bramblecot]

Our young ram is getting more inquisitive and 'friendly' by the day, but with no sign of agressiveness.  Is he only likely to get stroppy nearer to tupping time?   Any tips to avoid this would be greatfully received as I've not kept a ram before.  I deliberately do not 'pet' him although some of the ewes are very tame.  I guess they are not fully mature for a couple of years.

[Fleecewife]

It's very cute when a little lamb follows you around and thinks you're his mummy, and it's kind of fulfilling in a way. But that same lamb as he grows will see you as another sheep and part of his flock, to be dominated, which is of course where the problems start.  Having been accidentally whacked on the head by an overexcited Jacob tup, I can report that they can do a lot of damage, and that's without him thinking I was a flock member    I have also seen coddled Shetland tups who become impossible as adults, butting and shoving and being really quite dangerous.  I think you have to make them know that you are a human and the boss, so 'petting' them in both senses is out, also feeding little treats, special treatment away from the flock and so on.  Ideally the lamb should live with the flock from as early an age as possible, and only come to you for the bottle/feed and certainly not be encouraged to follow you around, even when this small.

I agree with Sally's points and would add that a lot can change in a year, and a lamb which looks promising now can end up with wonky horns or a bad mouth. So don't pin too many hopes on him in case you end up blinded by your expectations, or disappointed.  However, if you can be realistic, then give him a chance  .

[Anke]

Now I would have always said no to a handreared tup, but found out that my current (Shetland) one was a bottle lamb... however he is halter trained and has been shown as a shearling (not be my though), and I have not had any serious probems with him. I got butted a few weeks ago when on bringing in the feed he was "sorting out" his (wether) sons as everybody was crowding around... but has not repeated it at all. I do not pet him generaly, but he comes for the bucket.

I am not sure I would be able to train a pet lamb to keep on as a tup.... but I do not show my sheep and just don't have the time. So if you know what's involved and are keen to train him, why not?

[princesspiggy]

we have our bobby who was a rejected hebridean twin and we hand reared him. due to our inexperience at the time (we probly thought we would eat him) we never ringed him. this has left us with a completely tame ram which can at times be a pest and at others be a delight.
he comes to his name and u can lead him anywhere with a rope over his horn, no bother.
as he was handraised (and admittedly he spent the summer in and out of the house  ) he doesnt really bond with the other sheep, and prefers to be closer to the house in his own paddock (he does have the choice) and the other big rams are a bit too hard on him, infact he nearly lost an eye after a nasty fight.
hes a bit difficult to manage with other stock on a daily basis, as u cant shoo him away at gateways and he always manages to stick his horn in the back of your thigh without trying. he is overfriendly with the pigs and ponies, and children and annoys them all. so as long as u know that, u can keep him and everyone safe.
he will do a headbutt in breeding season, the fear of which left my son up a tree for an hr or 2 two one year (pmsl)
our bobby is not breeding quality so havent bred from him. he is 5 now and will die here.
hope that helps. 

[woollyval]

Bramblecot.....I know the parents of that ram of yours.....very good tempered! I have a sneaking suspicion that he will be as good as gold! If he had tended to show any sign of bolshiness over the autumn I would have eaten him!!! BTW eartag ordered!!!

[Bramblecot]

Woolyval,  He's lovely.  So friendly even though I do not encourage him.  Very good with all the ewes and a real gent  - he is still with the lambs.  I  hope he does not change.