Author Topic: owner-occupied croft for self-sufficiency - what is and isn't allowed? (Read 7830 times)

jamest · « **on:** March 04, 2012, 06:16:14 pm »

My wife and I are thinking of buying a property on Skye with a 3 acre o/o croft and working it self-sufficiently - i.e. growing vegetables and having hens for eggs, and not selling any of the produce. Whatever we couldn't eat, we'd give away.

Do you have to report regularly on what you're doing with an o/o croft? If so, who to? And would the above activity be considered acceptable?

Also what is it OK to build on it? We're thinking of a small birdwatching shelter, maybe a polytunnel, a wind turbine, a barbecue, shed, seating area. Would you need planning permission for any of these, on an o/o croft?

Thanks for any advice!

James

Rosemary · « **Reply #1 on:** March 04, 2012, 07:36:47 pm »

Try contacting the Scottish Crofting Federation - they run training for prospective crofters.

jamest · « **Reply #2 on:** March 04, 2012, 08:29:30 pm »

Quote from: Rosemary on March 04, 2012, 07:36:47 pm

Try contacting the Scottish Crofting Federation - they run training for prospective crofters.

I will email them and ask whether they take a view on usage that is wholly non-commercial and related to self-sufficiency. I suspect they may say all crofts should be run commercially, but I'll find out!

Lesley Silvester · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2012, 11:11:04 pm »

Hi and welcome from Shropshire. I once had a holiday on Skye, memorable for the fact that I got cystitis and was very poorly.

Rosemary · « **Reply #4 on:** March 05, 2012, 08:14:14 am »

Quote from: jamest on March 04, 2012, 08:29:30 pm

I will email them and ask whether they take a view on usage that is wholly non-commercial and related to self-sufficiency. I suspect they may say all crofts should be run commercially, but I'll find out!

SCF is not a governing body (that's the Crofting Commission) but a support and advisory body run by crofters. I don't think they will be able to say any such thing - since it's probably near impossible to run a croft "commercially" and probably wouldn't want to anyway. Given that a number of crofts are not worked at all, I think they will be happy to have someone work it.

lachlanandmarcus · « **Reply #5 on:** March 05, 2012, 09:31:09 am »

Agree - it sounds as if what you are planning to do is the epitome OF crofting!

jamest · « **Reply #6 on:** March 05, 2012, 09:41:55 am »

Quote from: Rosemary on March 05, 2012, 08:14:14 am

SCF is not a governing body (that's the Crofting Commission) but a support and advisory body run by crofters. I don't think they will be able to say any such thing - since it's probably near impossible to run a croft "commercially" and probably wouldn't want to anyway. Given that a number of crofts are not worked at all, I think they will be happy to have someone work it.

By "commercially" I meant for money, including grants. I know a few people who don't work their crofts, but they all let family members keep sheep on them, or harvest hay.

The statutory position has changed since I was last around. The CC have advised in relation to the 2nd Commencement Order 2010 that "owner-occupier crofters" (which I think is a new term – the previous line was that owner occupiers were not crofters because they were not tenants, but the land was subject to crofting tenure

) must "cultivate their crofts or else put them to some other purposeful use". They interpret (or define) "cultivate" to include agriculture (including growing trees) and any kind of husbandry (including keeping bees), and "purposeful use" to mean "any planned or managed use which does not adversely affect the croft, the public interest, the interests of the landlord or the use of adjacent land."

What I'd really like to know is whether owner-occupies are required to report to anyone what they are doing with the croft?

James

Hermit · « **Reply #7 on:** March 05, 2012, 11:33:40 am »

Hi, we are owner occupiers and have nothing to do with the crofters commission at all. We are self sufficient in most things and have never claimed a penny for the croft. When we first started you were not allowed as owner occupiers to get grants for three years to stop them being done up on grants and sold on. We are self sufficient for meat, milk, eggs, veg and hay on forty acres as a guideline to what can be done per acreage but that also depends on what type of land you have. The only thing is if you wanted to take agricultural land as house/ garden land, it would have to be decrofted. Otherwise all the usual planning applies especially if you want to run the poly tunnels as businesses but it only takes a phone call to check with your authority. If you want stock then defra is the one you need to be registered with even for poultry if you want over 50 in total inc ducks etc. If you live by the sea then go for a boat, it is best to go on a day skippers course first to get qualified for radio use, safety etc but if you have a boat you can look at the sea as extra free land for your meat ie fish. If you are a tenant crofter there is a whole different set of rules but you can still do what you want as long as it is crofting basically. The laird or estate manager will help you there, but as said you can do what you want and the CC is only there to help as a back up and support system, like a union I suppose.

chairmanphil · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2012, 11:58:17 am »

hey there and welcome to TAS

jamest · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2012, 11:50:35 pm »

Quote from: Hermit on March 05, 2012, 11:33:40 am

Hi, we are owner occupiers and have nothing to do with the crofters commission at all. We are self sufficient in most things and have never claimed a penny for the croft.

Thanks for this. We are vegetarians and would not be keeping animals for meat, and if we kept hens we'd have far fewer than 50, so it doesn't sound as though we'd have to have anything to do with Defra either. It seems as though non-agricultural use of an owner-occupied croft, e.g. of a small part of it, such as for birdwatching, would not cause hassle, although I have to say that in my experience in Scotland one gets nowhere offering a counter-interpretation of statutory provisions to the interpretation offered by the executive authorities - there's not much "separation of power" or "rule of law with checks and balances" - it's more of a country where "what Sir says, goes" than England.

smudger · « **Reply #10 on:** March 08, 2012, 09:59:40 am »

Hi James not an expert, but a few acres is never going to make a living. I only looked into it 10 or so years ago and was looking at a lot more land. The woman who was selling said the crofting commission would be interested in our plans not just in terms of financially supporting yourself and use of land but also your potential contribution to the community (ie do you have skill in shortage. At the time there wasn't a huge demand for owner/occupied crofts but suspect that has probably changed. I take it there is a house?