NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Trying to rent land  (Read 3898 times)

Brijjy

  • Joined Sep 2010
  • Mid Wales
Trying to rent land
« on: February 22, 2012, 02:31:31 pm »
I am trying to rent or buy a field opposite me from the county council. I did try a few years ago with no success but recently my neighbour extended their garden by buying a chunk of said field. The field is currently let as part of a smallholding but the tenant has never used it. Another neighbour grazes his sheep in it. I was wondering if anyone had had any success with buying or renting from the council. Do I keep pestering the council?
Silly Spangled Appenzellers, Dutch bantams, Lavender Araucanas, a turkey called Alistair, Muscovy ducks and Jimmy the Fell pony. No pig left in the freezer, we ate him all!
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lachlanandmarcus

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Aberdeenshire
Re: Trying to rent land
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2012, 03:57:31 pm »
I wonder how much the neighbour offered per acre, probably an offer they couldnt refuse! Wonder also whether they've applied for change of use PP for it....:-))

I think all you can do is keep pestering, mind you if there are other residents with gardens backing onto it the council may hold out for 'amenity/garden' money rather than the lower agricultural price.


bigchicken

  • Joined Nov 2008
  • Fife Scotland
Re: Trying to rent land
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2012, 05:35:29 pm »
If you want to rent it, ask the people who are the tenants how much they want for rent and cut you sheep keeping neighbours throat.   Or find another piece on ground maybe
Shetland sheep, Castlemilk Moorits sheep, Hebridean sheep, Scots Grey Bantams, Scots Dumpy Bantams. Shetland Ducks.

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
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Re: Trying to rent land
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2012, 05:45:21 pm »
Surely if one neighbour has been sold part of the field then a precedent has been set.  You should contact the council again, ask them to sell you the field and find out from either the neighbour or through your lawyer how much was sold to them and what price was paid.  Lawyers have access to that sort of information whereas the council may not give it to you.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Brijjy

  • Joined Sep 2010
  • Mid Wales
Re: Trying to rent land
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2012, 06:32:49 pm »
Some great ideas there, thanks folks. There are no other houses backing onto it. I last asked about buying it five years ago before my neighbour bought her piece. I was told outright, No. What annoys me is that there is a large smallholding and a smaller one very locally to me and neither one are being used as such by the tenants. In fact the tenant on the larger one sublets his land to a farmer. At least if I had the land I would utilise it.
Silly Spangled Appenzellers, Dutch bantams, Lavender Araucanas, a turkey called Alistair, Muscovy ducks and Jimmy the Fell pony. No pig left in the freezer, we ate him all!

Smalltime

  • Guest
Re: Trying to rent land
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 06:54:22 pm »
Just fence it off and use it. I bet no-one says anything or thinks anything of it. After 25 yrs its yours anyway. You sure your neighbour BOUGHT that land?  ;) Doubt it tbh.

You say someone is already renting the land from the council as a smallholding? Surely you can simply do likewise? If not, why not?  ???

Personally, given what you have said, I think the guy with the sheep has the right idea. Just crack on and 9/10 nobody will think anything of it. Far too wrapped up in their own lives and problems.

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Trying to rent land
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 07:00:58 pm »
smalltime it is not as easy as taking possesion  and it is not 25 years but you are in England :farmer:

chrismahon

  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Gascony, France
Re: Trying to rent land
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 08:03:20 pm »
It's actually 12 years under the laws of 'adverse possession' unless the land is registered with the Land Registry, which most is if it has been sold since 199? ; prior to that registration was voluntary. In that case you can never possess it without purchasing. You could just use it until the Registered owner throws you off.

Councils are very short of money at the moment so now is a good time to approach them again. Can you ask your neighbour what they paid for their piece? Land should appear on the Land registration document for their property -get a copy to check that they have bought it -used to be £8 for order on-line. Otherwise they are renting or have just occupied it.

bloomer

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Aug 2010
  • leslie, fife
  • i have chickens, sheep and opinions!!!
Re: Trying to rent land
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 08:13:37 pm »
you may also find it depends who controls your council

a few years ago where i used to live we looked at buying some land labour council said no as it was for the community (it was waste ground) last year we didn't have the money any more but our neighbour was able to negotiate a price it seamed very high but it was now a conservative controlled council...

i dont know it was the change of party that changed their minds but i do know the price tag was rediculous so still not sold as far as i know!!!

Small Farmer

  • Joined Jan 2012
  • Bedfordshire
Re: Trying to rent land
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 08:57:57 pm »
You can still claim adverse possession over registered land in England under Schedule 6 of the Land Registration Act 2002, and the time requirement has fallen to ten years.  But you do have to jump through some hoops.
Being certain just means you haven't got all the facts

sunnyjohn

  • Joined Jul 2008
  • Milton Keynes
Re: Trying to rent land
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2012, 08:41:03 pm »
I write as a former Council Officer, with some awareness of how their systems work.
1. If you are denied information, and live in the area of that Council, you can submit a 'Freedom of Information Request' for information about what land the Council has rented or sold to whom. They can only withold that information if it is commercially sensitive to the tenants/purchasers which, if the other owner/tenant is a private person, seems unlikely.
2. Failing that, you could ask the local Newspaper to investigate, on the premise that the Council is selling Public Assets (or renting them) without declaring them.
3. There may also be Minutes of the Council Meeting where it was agreed that the land could be sold, or that a nominated Council Officer had permission to sell that Public Asset. Most Council Meeting Minutes are accessible to the general public, so you can sess them. The central Library usually keeps a copy for you to reference.
4. Your local Councillor could be an asset to your cause; the Council can give you the name and contact details for him/her.
5. And if you find that the information is all fudged and unhelpful, you can ask your Councillor to table a question regarding the sale of Public Assets (in the form of spare land) that might benefit the Council's coffers. Unless the Council has scheduled use of that land in the District Plan, or has a prospective buyer already, they can't deny your application to buy it.
6. But it might take the Councillors to push the Officers to do anything if they are being intransigent.
7. Councillors are inclined to blame their officers for not making decisions, or making bad ones. Council Officers are inclined to blame the Councillors for not having authority to do things they themselves don't actually want to do. The 'oxygen' of publicity and persistent enquiry (amounting to harrassment, if necessary!) can sometimes un-bung the intransigence. You have nothing to lose!
Good Luck!
John

Brijjy

  • Joined Sep 2010
  • Mid Wales
Re: Trying to rent land
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2012, 08:55:27 pm »
Wow  :D Thanks Sunnyjohn for the wealth of info. So far I have phoned up the relevant chap twice but he was out of the office. I then fired off an email stating why I wanted the land, that the current tenant wasn't using it and that the council had already sold a piece of the field to my neighbour. Hopefully he'll answer tomorrow but if not I'll keep pestering until I get an answer.
Silly Spangled Appenzellers, Dutch bantams, Lavender Araucanas, a turkey called Alistair, Muscovy ducks and Jimmy the Fell pony. No pig left in the freezer, we ate him all!

 

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