[Mammyshaz]

Can anybody tell me please the difference between Public right of way and Agricultural right of way
And what both mean if a property is for sale with these clauses in.

(oh do I feel a right towny) 

[Sylvia]

A public right of way means just that. The public can walk across your land whenever they like and you must not stop them unless it is a danger to them (if, for instance, you are moving a bull across it) They are supposed to keep to the footpath and you can insist on dogs being on leads but many won't take a bit of notice
Agricultural access means that other farmers/contractors have a right to cross your land at certain times of the year such as "between May and October with a Combine Harvester" Other farmers usually give you fair warning and respect your livestock.

[manian]

Hi
rights of way are that.... public access across your land. depending on the type depends on what they can do/etc
for example bridleway/green road etc. All should be in your deeds. (although we had one persons private access that wasn't!!!! )
ask your ROW officer at the council (usually county council- not local) as some may have additional clauses to them.

.............................. and you can insist on dogs being on leads but many won't take a bit of notice

no people don't have to keep them o leads .... we have been told we shouldn't have our "keep dogs on lead" signs up
you can say keep dogs under close control...... a bit late when they have eaten your chickens!!

[Mammyshaz]

Thanks for the reply, this isn't too bad
The property I looked at has both in but there is an agricult RoW by private negotiation to neighbour into back garden via the adjoining field I would buy with property.
My worry is since his is a newly built house and he has bought extra land from this field,he may want to build more houses.
The property is cheap for what it is (finally in my bracket )  . I just don't know what to think.
Surely if he did this a road would be needed through the field, and I don't have to agree to that?
(if I did buy it.)
just thinking may be 1st step to smallholding as is 5 to 6 acres

[robert waddell]

if it is cheap it is  for a reason      in Scotland even with a written title to a right of way or access it can be stopped and it works for both the owner who's land the right crosses or the the one using the right of way
get legal opinion on it first before committing and get there opinion in writing just in case the s**t hits the fan down the line

[Small Farmer]

The law is very different between Scotland and England and you don't say which.

In England you can grant as many private Rights of Way to as many people as you like and each agreement can be different.  But the agreement is the agreement and cannot be varied without the consent of both parties.  So read the documentation.  If the purpose for which the RoW exists is unclear you should be nervous but RTFD and take advice.

Public rights of way are something else.  Most of the stuff is in the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 which brought together a bloody mess of legislation and practice into one place but generally increases and encourages access.  You can be quite sure that 99.9999% of people using your RoW won't have read the Act but will nevertheless use your land as if they owned it.

[Mammyshaz]

Thank you for the advice, I think you all agree I need to look into this deeply and read every documentation on the private agreements I can get my hands on.

Today I'll dream.......

tomorrow I'll get down to the nitty gritty and see what I dig up. Find a solicitor who deals in these matters regularly and keep fingers crossed that it's cheap due to the old property requiring updating  and not the fact that all the locals can legally party in it till Dawn 

  thanks by the way I'm in England

[manian]

i would also ask for an indemnity insurance from the vendors, in case any private ROW are found after the sale.
we have found one that wasn't on our deeds (in error from land registry- but blammed the solicitor of that time -1970's!)
we could contest apparently but they always come down on the side of the person wanting access if it is equal
Mx

[chrismahon]

English law. When buying a property it is sensible to get copies of all the adjoining Titles to see if there are rights of way conferred to them that don't appear on your Title document, which is regularly the case by virtue of the way they are granted. A right of way can be established if it has been used without formal permission for over 20 years. A grant by permission is not a grant by right and can be withdrawn. A grant by right must be conveyed - recorded in title as part of a purchase. Legal interpretations can change subject to reference cases and only a barrister will be able to investigate thoroughly, not a solicitor who is expert in proceedure not caselaw. Take out legal insurance with £100K cover minimum. This is a very complex part of law as I know from experience.

I would say an agricultural grant would become a right of way grant if the land it served was changed from agricultural to domestic by planning application.

[robert waddell]

but then the usage changes from say once a week to 4 or more times per day which is a material increase of usage to that granted in the prescriptive period

[Mammyshaz]

OMG things just get more complicated as the days go on!

The house is so bad it needs a structural engineer to check things out, then the fees to check out legal rights on the land
Really, I'm wondering if it is going to be worthwhile even considering it.
No wonder it's still on the Market.

 your replies are greatly appreciated, thanks.

[Small Farmer]

The price has to reflect the situation.  When things get complicated fewer people will even look at it, so there comes a time when the price is right for you.

If it doesn't get to the right number then the other guy's the sucker

[chrismahon]

Taking Robert's point. Yes the frequency of use increases but potentially the size of the vehicles reduces. It would depend on caselaw and pre-court bargaining. Someone getting planning permission for a house will be prepared to throw a lot of money at the problem tpo realise their potential profit. In Civil law there are only losers, its just a matter of how much, the apparent winner will still spend a fortune. Our legal costs here have amounted to over £80K and only half was met by legal insurance, The last bloke spent £70K trying to overturn a restrictive covenant which to most was a simple black and white case. But it doen't work like that. The more you throw at it the more you get out of it. So get legal insurance !

[robert waddell]

a farmer had a dispute with his neighbour over a fence he was at the market and decided to go to the lawyer about it   half an hour latter his neighbour went to the same lawyer  and started to explain       stop there said the lawyer i am representing you neighbour and cant advise you but i can recommend a different lawyer so he dully writes out a letter of introduction  the farmer goes away and forgets about the letter latter that night he remembers and gets the letter from his jacket and places it on the mantle piece    then he thinks i will open it  no it is not for me  he sits and smokes his pipe then opens it it said        two fat geese you pluck one i will pluck the other     so be warned try to settle before the legal fraternity start ripping you
 i am talking from experience even if you win you still lose you do not get every thing back the sum involved was £1800  our costs £5000 the losers costs estimated at £12000

[smudger]

Our property has  a right of way for the "adjoining farm" which has now been split into different ownership - potentially then with the same right conferred on more people than a single user, something to watch out for. Whilst we were not put off by the ROW (which needless to say was never mentioned by the vendors), it had been "frustrated" by the blocking up of a an access or two, changes in level and even a building(!).  Our solictor pulled out an extract of a judgement which says a ROW can never be extinguished even by non-use (they claimed no one had used it in 30 years). We got them to take out indemnity insurance to cover the cost of any future legal fees (as Robert's experience demonstrates).

(Of course we did notice that the primary gate from the adjoining land wasn't wide enough for a big tractor and no farmer is ever going to get out of his tractor ie he? )