[milarepa]

I WAS ALWAYS TAUGHT TO NEVER KNOCK WHAT YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND IF I HAD WANTED PETTY PATRONISING COMMENTS I WOULD HAVE NOT BOTHERED TO ASK THE QUESTION NOW I NO YOU DO GET BETTER RESPONSES FROM GOATS AND SHEEP

[deepinthewoods]

i didnt think you had any petty patronising comments, more just some interested (but not experts in biodynamics) tas'ers watching for others to add more specific infromation.
 im interested in this too, but also have only just started to research and apply some of the more basic techniques, my only understanding of biodynamis is the lunar planting side of it.
id be interested to learn more, if anyone on here knows .
so far tho, it would seem that not many people here, do know much about it.

[Lesley Silvester]

If I came over as petty or patronising, I apologise.  It certainly wasn't intended.  I have heard of planitng by the moon as it's a system that has been used for probably hundreds of years.  I'm just not that dedicated.  Or organised.

[darkbrowneggs]

I have learnt from other forums not to discuss anything much which is beyond the received wisdom of the day, as on the internet there are just too many folks ready to shoot you down, which is a pity, as in my opinion all information is good information, and just that.  ie it informs, then armed with that information everyone is then free to make their own decision. 

Sadly there are many folk in world who feel their own opinion must be adopted by everyone else.  (These comments are not directed anywhere in particular - and certainly not at anyone I have come across on this site - just musings in general)

So - assuming anyone is interested in learning about Biodynamics rather than up for a debate this is a quote on "What is Biodynamics"  from theBiodymanics site

"An impulse for deep social change rooted in the practice of farming. Biodynamics calls for new thinking in every aspect of the food system, from how land is owned to how farms are capitalized to how food is produced, distributed and prepared.

A type of organic farming that incorporates an understanding of “dynamic” forces in nature not yet fully understood by science. By working creatively with these subtle energies, farmers are able to significantly enhance the health of their farms and the quality and flavor of food.

A recognition that the whole earth is a single, self-regulating, multi-dimensional ecosystem. Biodynamic farmers seek to fashion their farms likewise as self-regulating, bio-diverse ecosystems in order to bring health to the land and to their local communities."

I personally feel there is more to this world and universe than, at present, we can possibly understand.  I maybe don't 100 percent agree with everything in the Biodynamic movement, but there is enough good about it to stir my interest.

I feel a move in the direction of Biodynamics is a natural progression from the organic movement, which now seems to have degenerated into a marketing ploy.

[Fleecewife]

The original question was this:

My wife is going to experiment with two raised beds using the biodynamic gardening method. Has anybody tried this and any advise?

From what we have discussed, I wonder how a biodynamic system can apply to just two beds in a garden.

Milarepa, how does your wife intend to go about this?  Which aspects of Biodynamics will she be exploring?

I am not intending to be denigratory in any way with this question, but I am interested in the reply.

[darkbrowneggs]

Everything needs to start from somewhere, and "from small seeds mighty forests grow" 

Presumably the beds will be the start of an experiment into whether this is something they wish to pursue. 

There are lots of books around, and the library might be able to help if given the titles.  A quick search on Amazon bought up this.  If they simply bought this years planting calendar it ususally has quite a few interesting tips and pointers

As I say - I just offer this for technical information, in general I am not into detailed debate on the principles of things, as there are many different ways of living in the world, each valid to the individual concerned.

[Plantoid]

Look up hoof , horn and blood fertilizer and you can get an idea of why the horn is in the heap .

[Miss Piggy]

If it was my remarks that offended I apologise wholeheartedly, there was no intention whatsoever to offend. I was interested to know more and just posted my thoughts after looking it up, i.e. life is too busy for me as an individual and the weather not suited here to allow me the option of sowing as per the lunar calendar. My comments were not written with any condescension intended towards the system.

[milarepa]

thanks for the advise. the 2 beds measure 20x8 feet each we still have veg from last year in them which was grown organicaly and we have noted the results so we can compare with this easons veg i have spoken to a friend who grew biodynamicaly and who has grown organicaly and traditionaly he found the results were very much improved but found he became a slave to the system we will try try this method if only to prove tro ourselves          by the way the moon controls most things in our life why should it not have an affect on plants and planting

[darkbrowneggs]

You will find as you get into it that it is more than just moon based, though that does have a strong influence also.

One of the things that I found most noticeable is that (in my experience) bread rises better and makes a nicer and more satisfying loaf when made during the Warmth/Light (Flower/Fruit) periods. 

That's an easy one to try, and the results show immediately - well did to my mind anyway - my mother made our bread for many, many years, and having tried following the calender was total convert, to the extent we had to go without if the day was missed.

When I first bought the "Calender" it was pretty basic, but each year they include more hints and tips.  I keep them for reference and to read through from time to time

Maria Thun, born 1914, who started publishing the "Calender" 50 years ago has been growing all her life, and at least her father before her, so she probably knows a bit about gardening anyway

Here is a link on something else you might be interested in Linky

But as I say - each to their own - it works for me  even though I don't follow everything.

[jaykay]

I think the moon may well influence natural things, it has a gravitational effect and we're all affected by that (some of us more than others  ).

The companion planting, as we know, works well.

The 'potions' have some aspects of trace elements in them, and again we know that soils and plants need these, see Plantoid's comment about the horn in the compost heap.

The potions also involve quite a bit of ritual. Nothing wrong with the ritual if you want to believe in it or enjoy it, but many folk don't and it has to be ok to discuss it rationally rather than just believe something blindly.

It's better, in my opinion, that people discuss the bits that do make sense to them and do, in their experience and that of others, work and therefore keep the best rather than throw the whole lot out because the ritual aspects seem odd to us now. After all, what you get in such a discussion is a whole heap of collective folk-wisdom and it seems to me that that's what the biodynamics movement grew out of too.

[YorkshireLass]

Genuine question (mentioned before and not intended as criticism or sarcasm  )

How does the calendar allow for different regions, weather variations etc? Or is it more "this week is good to plant root vegetables" rather than "plant carrots this afternoon"?
I'll admit I'm not a ritual-loving person, so perhaps I do dismiss things that seem odd to me before making proper enquiries.
I'm trying to absorb companion planting/permaculture in a way that will work in my little garden - my main stumbling block is what to use for ground cover, I've got as far as thinking white clover...?

[darkbrowneggs]

There is one calendar for the northern hemisphere and one for the southern hemisphere.  It is more to do with all the "heavenly aspects" at a particular time.  ie old gardeners round here (west midlands) planted their potatoes on Good Friday, which is an annual date linked to the the moon and the spring equinox, and an easy one to remember (nothing to do with biodynamics here, just saying that the time of year can be as influential as weather conditions on the day). 

Its really almost too complicated a system to just explain in forum posts, and if anyone is genuinely interested in trying it out I would suggest (as I mentioned before) starting by getting the planting calender,  It won't mean all that much at first, but it would be a taster of whether it is something that you might want to pursue. 

I think it is one of those things that you will either quite enjoy, or find ridiculous - , there doesn't seem much inbetween ground.  I can see lots in it  that seem laughable, but then "there are more things in heaven and earth"  etc......... 

As I say - as a quick test, if you are a breadmaker try making a loaf on Thus 12 and then another on Sunday 15th or Monday 16th , and see if there is any difference between them, and post the results of whether you though the first loaf or the second loaf was better.  Might be interesting to see if there is any difference.

I have never set up a survey on a forum but perhaps that would be a good one, and I can post the dates for testing over the next few months and we could see if certain days are better

[YorkshireLass]

I don't eat bread but I do like the idea of everyone giving it a bash and posting results 

Other daft question, does the calendar/info refer to specific plant types, traditional to the region, or is it more general? I have seeds for sea kale, scorzonera, salsify, who knows what else....... so if they can be accommodated I'll give the calendar a bash; if it's more specific to traditional crops such as potatoes, broad beans then maybe not 

[darkbrowneggs]

Its grouped into Root Fruit Flower and Leaf.  Some are a bit difficult to categorize.  For years I grew Caulis and Broccoli under Flower, but it tends to make them flower a bit too quickly and they are better under Leaf

So mainly, just choose the part of the plant you are seeking to enhance ie peas sweetcorn and tomatoes would come under fruit, and carrots and potatoes root days.  Leeks and onions I tend to grow on root days, though they are a bit between that and leaf, and leaf days for salad, and greens etc. 

And if anyone really wanted to "trial" it for themselves then grow the same plants in two halves of a row one on the "right" day and one not.  ie tomatoes sown, transplanted pinched out weeded and harvested on fruit days and another lot but all done on root days.  Then compare the yield, quality and taste.  Which is basically how Maria Thun came to publish her Calender. 

Of course its not just about slavishly following the calender alone, good husbandry and soil care etc must also come into the equation, but it is a good place to start.