[dyedinthewool]

Hi,

With this awful weather I've started to confine my little lot of six ewes overnight to a stoned yard with access to a barn and hay, this is where they will hopefully lamb - end of Jan/Feb. OH has put up individual hay racks along one side of the barn, so they can have a hay rack each so no-one gets pushed out.

My Ram is still with them as he got upset when I tried keeping him in another paddock with the ram lambs so I relented and he went back in with the girls.

My problem is he is a bit pushy with the girls (typical male - he wants the best bits of hay) now they are in a more restricted area and they haven't got so much room to move out of his way, like in the field, so I put him in a pen of his own at the end of the barn, he can still see the girls and is quite happy there and I'm sure the girls feel more comfortable being on their own. 

They get a bit of hard feed in the afternoon and are then shut into the yard.  It does mean I have to 'handle' him to split him off from the girls when they come in.
 
He tends to put his head down and make as if to charge/butt  but at the moment stops short of contact, usually because I growl at him and do a 'Barbara Whitehouse?  hand up and firmly say NO!! it's when I'm trying to get him into the 'alley' to his pen. (The 'alley/race is just two hurdles within the barn down one side making a 'race' with a gate at the end to his pen)  The annoying thing is he knows what I want him to do and after the first tussle he goes straight down and into the pen and then looks at me as if to say ' I know what you wanted I was just being awkward...'

I don't know what to do to stop him rushing at me - I don't want to make him 'unmanageable'. Basically he very friendly - likes his ears/head/chin scratched and once I get him going the right way is obliging.

Does anyone have any tips/tricks about handling him - Things NOT to do and things that I should be doing.

Any advice gratefully received

[Dizzycow]

What breed are they? We've got a small flock of Hebrideans who are incredibly flighty. If I need to catch one, or more, I put hay or feed down so that they are eating and don't look at me. Then I grab the scruff of the neck and a horn, leap the fence (it's terribly impressive, as you can imagine) then straddle them and waddle them out. Works for me!

[dyedinthewool]

Dizzycow...!!

You're a hoot..

I can see you doing it now.

Unfortunately my lad is Charolais x Dorset and quite big and I'm not in my prime (like you) or him so no leaping about I'm afraid...

[Dizzycow]

Goodness gracious. We had Charolais when I was girl. They were cows, so no wonder you're struggling to straddle the bugger. If you didn't see it, then this might make you feel better, DITW. 

Cow slips on ice

 

[dyedinthewool]

AHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

That must be the reason I have a bad back................!!!!!!!!!!!

Never thought if i put a saddle on him it may be easier

Did miss a (l) in the Charollais spelling.

[Dizzycow]

Crikey, I've no idea about the spelling! Maybe it's different for sheep and cattle?

Our cows were great and gentle beasts. I was enchanted as a child by being able to stroke them and have them lick my hand. Not after their huge tongues scooted up their nostrils, as was one of their habits.

I feel that a little halter on the sheep should be sufficient, but Hebs are wild beasties. A friend of ours has very tame and fat sheep, don't know what they are, but they're amenable. I like the saddle idea very much! 

[bigchicken]

The way I stopped a ram butting me was to grab him by the horns and turn him on his back he soon got the message that I was not to be messed with I find its not good to get to friendly with a ram. I would separate him in case he causes any damage  to your pregnant ewes

[SallyintNorth]

Sounds like you are managing him just fine in the circs.  Much better to use charisma than a stick - he might decide to fight a stick.

We've had two Charollais tups (yes, bizarrely it's one-ell for Charolais cattle, two-ells for Charollais sheep - despite their both coming from the same region in France  ) and both have been delightful gentlemen.  Fred, the current one, was a bit pushy about feed as a lamb / hogg but is deferential now.  Both have been tame enough that we can just walk up to them in the field or pen and tip 'em up to do feet, or whatever we need.  It's a nice breed.

However, do you think you, your girls and your ram might be better off if he did go in with the ram lambs and just got used to it?  What sort of 'upset' did he get?

[Dizzycow]

He's a Battering Ram.

[Hazelwood Flock]

I've always been told not to pat a ram on the top of his head, always tickle under the chin. Also if he does come at you, stand your ground and when he is as close as you dare let him, hop backwards - it really takes the wind out of their sails!

[bigchicken]

The ram I arm talking about was a Shetland with big muckle horns and was a complete bully. he once almost killed his son to the extent that when they were separated he jumped the hurdles and because there was no room to charge tryed to stomp him to death, When I got back I could not believe it. I treated the ram who was bruised from head to tail and never got to his feet for four days He was a very dominant animal and I took some punishment from him . I did nothing to him but try to be friendly but he saw me as a rival.

[SteveHants]

Unless he was actually hurting the ram lambs, Id get him outside. You are the boss, not him. I've been charged by Wiltshire rams before now, and if you stand fast, they soon get the impression....(you still have to wach em when you are in a pen with em, mind)

[Fleecewife]

I go with the advice of others to separate him out from the ewes and get him in with the ram lambs.  OK he may sulk for a couple of days but then he will settle down to batchelordom.
Mostly it is a bad idea to pet a ram - he will see you as part of his harem, to be dominated, and will only be confused if you don't then submit.
Keeping him indoors with the ewes is very different to keeping him outside with them, as they can't get away from him.  Sometimes when a ewe is in labour a tup will attack her, because her actions are strange to him and she will smell strange.  It might be alright with the occasional very gentle tup, but as he is showing signs of exerting his authorty already you really need to get him out of there.  Once he is in with the ram lambs he will treat them a bit like his girls and spend many happy hours checking them to see if any have magically changed sex 

[Sylvia]

Go into the field/pen with one arm outstetched "See, I'm a ram with much bigger horns than you!" This will keep him at bay though he will follow you round so you have to walk backwards I have only had one ram that seriously worried me and this worked. Never try to make a pet of a ram, it won't work.

[woollyval]

Sound advice above! Remember more people are killed by rams than by bulls