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Author Topic: composted sileage  (Read 9286 times)

Plantoid

  • Joined May 2011
  • Yorkshireman on a hill in wet South Wales
composted sileage
« on: December 27, 2011, 08:42:27 pm »
Today I've been offered several cubic metres of 8 yr old naturally composted sileage that has been in a sileage pit and coverd in black polyethene. 

Have any of you used if  as part of the general mix of composted materials for soil nourishmnet or improvement.

If so did it help bring any special attributes to the gardens ? Or was it a failure ?

International playboy & liar .
Man of the world not a country

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: composted sileage
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2011, 09:08:25 pm »
i am not sure just what you are describing
if it is silage and covered with plastic the silage should still be useable a silage even if it has a rotten outer cover it should still be good in the centre        i was told years ago about a dung midden on a farm and when they went to spread it it turned out to be a very good pit of silage
if it has been rotted down it will be just dung/compost and unless it was made with weeds initially it will be good for the soil :farmer:

Plantoid

  • Joined May 2011
  • Yorkshireman on a hill in wet South Wales
Re: composted sileage
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2011, 11:12:08 pm »
Now that's interesting.

The farm has not been worked since the farmer died 8 yrs ago ,other than people hiring the grazing .
 It was a grass based sileage pit covered in several thicknesses of plack poly and loads of old tyres to weight it down .  There is about five metres  still in the pit some 1.3 mtrs deep .

It's recently changed hands into three lots , I'm surprised the none of the local farmers haven't managed to swindle it off the old gal , perhaps she knew its value and dug her heels in .

Anyway the farm house and buildings are now separated from the land , the guy who has the buildings and house  just wants it cleared out the pit for he has other ideas for using it as the walls are reinforced cast concrete nearly 8 feeet high , the pit is over 40 feet long & 15 feet wide.

 It might seem a waste but I think it will made darn good additions to my away from home ( at my pals small farm & stable set up ) pile of straw based dairy cow , sheep chicken and pig muck that has been composting for me for the last three years.

 I'm after around 10 cubic meters of such a balanced type compost to fill all my new raised beds plus a few spare for top up's  as well as to dress to 4 incheds deep all the new lawns  ready for a spring grass sowing .
Fortunately for me  me it's going to be free. ;D , but i will have to hire a small tipper truck for a couple of days to move it .

I had hoped it might have been pea sileage for I believe that is quite high in nitrogen but it won't happen around here as it's too lumpy
International playboy & liar .
Man of the world not a country

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: composted sileage
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2011, 09:44:55 am »
you do not want nitrogen as all it does is greens the plant and causes rapid growth poultry dung is rich in ammonia  even when rotted    i don't think pea silage will retain the nitrogen when rotted
if it is still silage when you dig it out you will need to start from scratch  letting you rot it down turning it over to generate heat and decompose it quicker          only one way to find out open it up :farmer:

Plantoid

  • Joined May 2011
  • Yorkshireman on a hill in wet South Wales
Re: composted sileage
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2011, 12:29:32 am »
Thanks Robert...
 I hope to meet up with te property owner  early in the new year when he comes back off his holiday trip.

 
International playboy & liar .
Man of the world not a country

Sylvia

  • Joined Aug 2009
Re: composted sileage
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2011, 01:21:38 pm »
I would layer it up with a load of straw based manure and leave it for a few months. When silage hits the air it just goes to a smelly goo.

Plantoid

  • Joined May 2011
  • Yorkshireman on a hill in wet South Wales
Re: composted sileage
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2011, 12:55:21 am »
Thanks Sylvia ,
 Thankfuly I will have access to straw based well weathered stable muck .
International playboy & liar .
Man of the world not a country

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: composted sileage
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2011, 10:13:59 am »
the recycling guys put there compost in windrows turning constantly to keep the heat up  :farmer:

Plantoid

  • Joined May 2011
  • Yorkshireman on a hill in wet South Wales
Re: composted sileage
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2011, 07:20:28 pm »
Nowadays I cant do that sort of heavy work  so I have purchased a garden claw device that I can screw down into  stuff and aireate it.  Once aired I've been  using a hose pipe and give it a fair soaking  so the heat can build up again and make the compost  within weeks in the big Dalek composting bins.

 If I cant use the claw as things get fuller i'll just let nature take its place with the worms as the sole aireators  and add an extra three months to my schedule for getting the final qualityb of compost I'm after.

In some of the bins i've added Garotta to speed up the decomposition of things .

 It looks like I'm going to end up with a very well balanced nutrious mixed compost the likes of which you can never get in garden centres.

 I've also taken the first steps to growing brandling worms on rotting vegetation ( veg prep waste from a local factory ) Kitchen waste and shredded newspapers  plus the contents of the vacuum  hopper. . The worm castings  produced after them munching their way the enough the rotting veg & other bits are exceedingly good fertilizer , the excess worms will also end up in the beds to do what worms do best.

I researched worm growing many years ago and hope I can still recall the advice I was given and what I read.

At present I'm stuck inside as it's done nothing but piddle down fine and fast like a very heavy sea mist for the last three days  plus my muck sources are on holliday etc. till around the 4 Jan.
International playboy & liar .
Man of the world not a country

deepinthewoods

  • Guest
Re: composted sileage
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2011, 07:43:44 pm »
brandlings can be got from leaving a plank on the soil, really easily.
 good compost is a gift from above, to be treasured and respected. good luck with this one!
im pretty sure garrota is a more expensive form of sulphate of ammonia, any hot nitrogen source would do, like fresh chicken doo.

Plantoid

  • Joined May 2011
  • Yorkshireman on a hill in wet South Wales
Re: composted sileage
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2011, 02:13:09 pm »
Thanks ,
 There is another very cheap  converter as well Garotta it ... might be that stuff instead.. can't remember the name of it at present . (I'm bad memory session today ).

Where I've been getting wet well aged horse muck in wood pulp from is a veritable crawling mat of brandlings and other worms  under the sheets of wriggly tin the stable gals use to barrow muck up and along the heap .  I  collected  loads and  inocculated  the green composters and the gardens with them three years ago.

The new beds will need them in deceent numbers , hopefuly the snow , ice and rain stays away whilst I collect another  couple of small trailer loads  of it towards the end of next week .


 This morning a lady phoned me offered me numerous heavy duty sacks of old straw based horse muck and several of straw & chicken muck , I'm collecting them around Wednesday next week .

 
International playboy & liar .
Man of the world not a country

MAK

  • Joined Nov 2011
  • Middle ish of France
    • Cadeaux de La forge
Re: composted sileage
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2011, 02:57:45 pm »
Grandma and suckings eggs but urine is a great compost accelerator and adds water too. If I am lazy and just spread mine in the same side of the compost then I notice that side of the pile drops ( rots down) quicker.
I also dug up about 50 m2 of turf that I stacked root side up for loam in numerous piles a few feet high ( looked like beehives from a distance). I mix the loam from these to my compost piles with chicken, duck and pig litter when I turn them. I really should buy an extension lead and move the cement mixer near the dung and compost piles but then it is great exercise mixing with a fork. This is our first year here so although the compost looks good it is untested. 
Good luck with the raised beds Plantoid. I experimented with some roots ( carrots) and leaves ( lettuce) after making some raised beds a few years back. After turning both  beds boarded one up about 6 inches and I added rotted manure and fallen leaves in November. I covered this one with black garden fabric and kept off the beds at all time. The bed remained raised compared to the other bed without leaves.The carrots I grew in this bed were much much bigger than those I grew in another part of the garden. Not sure that the lettuce did any better though. - I think that the leaves encouraged worms and aerated the soil and allowed better root penetration into a good water retaining bed.
martin
www.cadeauxdelaforge.fr
Gifts and crafts made by us.

deepinthewoods

  • Guest
Re: composted sileage
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2011, 03:22:00 pm »
mak, that does sound like the perfect way to make a raised bed, i did similar when making one of mine, tho i dug leafmould from one of the paths in the woods and mixed that with some well rotted donkey manure, i got two trailer loads of that from a small donkey sanctuary. thinking about it, that donkey was the best manure ive had.

this year i havent had the time to make as much as i need. something for the new year.

MAK

  • Joined Nov 2011
  • Middle ish of France
    • Cadeaux de La forge
Re: composted sileage
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2011, 05:08:46 pm »
I best get a donkey then  ;D
Someone is giving away a donkey on a local website here but I gather they prefer not to be alone.
I won't bother with raised beds either. We moved here last Jan and the land was grazed by cattle and the large barns deep in fossilised cow manure. I diverted the stream to get enough water to soak slabs of manure and dug it into the "virgin ground".
I am not sure how to describe the top soil here except that it is completely stone free, deep, good water retainer but light to work. We live amongst volcanic "puys" . lots of trees on the higher ground and virtually exclusively grazed by Limousin cattle ( pink veal land). Cold winters and hot summers but the land yields well.
I will need to ensure that the large veg plots are replenished each year and have become rather obsessive about collecting dung and making good compost. My elderly neighbours are all widows ( and over 80) - they rent out their land to a young farmer. It seems that he drives his muck spreader into their garden, dresses it then makes 2 passes with his plough. These ladies then have long rows of veg in each furrow. So basic but economical in work compared to all my small beds with neat paths around them.
My English garden ( and in particular the runner-beans) seem to fascinate or amuse passerbyes and takes a lot of work ( watering is a real chore). Maybe I should fall in line with the neighbours and let the muck spreader and tractor do all the work. :wave:
Martin
www.cadeauxdelaforge.fr
Gifts and crafts made by us.

Plantoid

  • Joined May 2011
  • Yorkshireman on a hill in wet South Wales
Re: composted sileage
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2012, 07:53:55 pm »
The more i've been looking into thing ( five years or more )  the more i realize that getting a well rounded mix of composted manures and rotting vegitation is the thnig to aim for .

what was that olde worlde saying .. " the secret lies in the soil " too right and our fore farthers recognised it 7 make it possible.
 it seems we have temporarily moved awy form the old idea and gone hell for leather into artificail stuf  and single crop harvesting over and over again in th same place..

 I have an old Percy Throwers book ca 1964  plus eseveral  pre and post war crown publications about crip production from the period when we had to dig for victory and  the best to date scienticic knowledge was used to keep us growing things and stop the country from starving

I think Percy was  a retired guy by 1964 , he'd  had a life of doing the gardening for  some large house and wealthy family who employed numerous gardeners as well as him working at some place like Kew Gardens as head gardener so he knew his stuff  he was also technically qualified in plant husbabdry etc.. He was one of the first to write a decent gardening book and eventually he had a TV show & newespaper column in his own name .

 What I've gathered from Percy and those numerous other  scientific gardeners is that you  need a minium of  five sorts of content  made up of equal parts ( buckets full of the end product ) of  non meat eating animal manure , bird droppings  and  veg compost

The  seem to all agree upon  .
Three buckets full of  well rotted manures from at least three creatures non meat eating creatures on straw  ... cow ,pig, horse, goat,  sheep, llamma donkey etc.,
one part of some bird dropping sc/w feathers & bedding  from any of of duck ,chicken ,pigeon,  goose or  turkey.
one bucket of  well composted vegetable matter that the worms have gone through  .

this is their basic ideal rounded blend of soil nutirent .

Addng composted seaweed  , fish waste  is also reckoned to be a big advantage so is adding comfrey at any stage of its life either as choppse  7 decaysed or fresh as a green additive


 One of the manures can be  mushroom compost as it has a blend of straw gypsu and several tyeps of manures in it. But don't do more than one part  it is not good for the plants

 The more varied a vegetable compost you can make the better so not only can you add what comes of your garden or kitchen you can add sea weed banana skins orange peel etc etc,, mashed up green or dead leaves and things like usedtea leaves and coffeee grounds arfe alos good  .

 I have also learnt that  worm casts obtained from live worms consuming newly rotting vegetation , egg sheell sand tea bags is  a vital element that povides extra nutirent . using meat eating animal muck is a no no co comosted cat or dog muck is lout lest you wn to give youselves toxacara or  numerous sorts of worms & maladies that infest meat eaters and their dung. For the same reason its not on to use human crap ( in most cases )

 I have friends who are producing a nutient soil enhancer at home with six or more animal manures s,o many veg species you be hard put to count on three sets of Welsh fingers and things like hair  ,toe nails from dogs cats  horses goats  humans etc etc. as well as all sorts of aquatic animal sources  both salt and fresh along with weeds from their ponds and local rivers .
Apparently addig in chopped up fresh comfrey to all of the ingredients during their action period enhances or at the end when you put it in the garden enhances the product further with phospates

 I've drooled in envy at some of the 2 pound tomatoes they have grown or the  fantastic carrots and greens they have produced .
 
Now I'm heading to make my own soil enhancer in the same manner .

To this end I've already got three large Dalek composting bins on the go ( I have whinging bitching  neighbours  to contend with ) & another threeare due soon  for me to start the  production system .
 
Bin one....the cool bin for just composted veg matter and worm casts .

 this is bing used with brandlings , cross cut shredded newspaper  , mashed up dead leaves ,my own urine "diluted at 20 water to one part nectar ; ) , all our kitchen waste but no cooked stuff or raw meats or fats , there is also other non glossy shredded paper and lots of torn up brown cardboard bits as well as all garden waste chopped bruised or shredded )  that has no soil on it and at present no prennial weeds ( even these will get added once they get drowned for a few weeks in a bucket of water and their decomposition starts ) I want this bin to go help make up my soilless growth medium  that I am proposing to use in all my 22 deep raised beds. as well as  my using some to boost the  soil based bins contents .

Bins two three and four will be hot with the various manures & straw etc watered and aireated weekly . With care I should be able to make it like Expresso Coffee in about four to six weeks all year round 

Bin five should be another another fairly cool bin for all rooted stuff  with earth on the roots , some of their stalks plus  shredded paper cardboard , diluted urine & a few layers of fresh  animal manure ( this bin is only for  putting on the lawns to refresh them ) but I will also  broadcast some of the blended nutrients on them as well when they need it. . again watered and aireated weekly

 Bin six is for holding the finished blended  nutrient until it's needed
 
 Any left  over worm cast and the stuff they have been through will be dry stored  till it's needed then used on the basis of one plant out , put  a trowel of it in mwork it well  , then put in a different  plant seed etc. in the newly  fertilized area .


It appears to me that most people seem to get manure and compost ideas mixed up and end up with a very unballanced  weak mixture that they try and feed the soil with.
International playboy & liar .
Man of the world not a country

 

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