[northfifeduckling]

I wondered if people can share their experience with traditionally farming neighbours. The guy who rents all the land from our direct neighbours has just ploughed the field right up to our fence. I complained before, when he decided to cut our hawthorn hedge right up to the fence so he could get another few inches out of it. His response was "it is my right and that hedge hadn't been cut for years"...I feel that we do not have any rights whatsoever. He never tells us when or what he sprays. In previous years it was only my own veg crops I was concerned about but now we have the birds, which graze right up to the hedge from the other side. Do we have any rights and who can tell us what they are?

[rustyme]

hello NFD,
            there are rules/laws for spraying ie wind direction blowing towards neighbours etc , but if he did spray it would be down to you to prove that the wind was blowing towards you and that the spray went on your plants/animals and had a detrimental effect. I have known a few people that have had this problem , and apart from just comming to an agreement with the neighbour there isn't really much you can do , unless you want all out war and lots of court cases and legal bills to pay ? . As for the hedge ? , most hedges are owned by both parties as a rule , unless there is some stipulated difference on the deeds? It is therefore a dual right/obligation to look after and repair  hedges , laws and boundry rights are somewhat different in towns etc. It is all much more vague in country areas, mind you I know nothing of Scottish law !!!!! As for ploughing close to the fence , nothing can be done there unless he is claiming set asside or being paid to leave a natural headland round the field ?  I am not a lawyer and there may be legal grounds you could follow but I have known people with similar problems and it cost them lots of money to get nowhere.......I doubt there is an easy answer that would cover all events and problems apart from trying to appeal to his better nature ( I do know some people don't have one !!!) Sorry I can't give a better answer !!!!

cheers

Russ

[northfifeduckling]

Thanks, Russ. A friend of mine was sprayed when she tried to close her polytunnel to stop the poison (a copper phosphate I think, but I'm not 100% sure) getting in. She immediately reacted with severe skin problems and has since fought against ME and Fibromyalgia. She got nowhere with the law, but things might have changed since then and she was too ill to get her teeth into a war...I just don't know where to look for stuff in black and white - web or elsewhere...
The hedge is on our side of the fence, planted by my OH.
The farmer in question is just one of those who don't give a ****. All I'd get is another "it is my right".

[Pigtails]

Scottish Law is much the same, both parties to the boundary fence / or hedge has similar responsibilities.
The owner or tenant must keep his part in good repair and most importantly stock proof,
For instance, an owner must not knowingly allow damage to be caused to his land through inadequate fencing, whereby his neighbours stock
can gain access to his land.
and the adjacent owner / tenant, may be liable to penalty and fine if he allows his stock to roam,

These matters all too frequently end up in court, and once they do it can be a long drawn out affair, not at all pleasant.
Best to try to negotiate, a truce, rather than resort to court action.

Not a lawyer, but have had the experience.

[Pigtails]

If the hedge is yours, on your land, you have a claim for malicious damage.
Places to look for information are on Lawyers websites, the courts websites, the house of lords,/ millbankhansard (very old records, old cases. old laws, of which a few have been repealed)
The British Farming Forum, may be of use (or certainly, you can be sure, someone will know more than me)

I will find some links for your perusal and I will post them here.

 

[Pigtails]

Type your query into google, it will throw up everything it can find on the subject

Here are a few to be going on with;
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=498752

http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/mainindex.shtml

http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/

http://www.dur.ac.uk/ibru/resources/links/

http://www.lands-tribunal-scotland.org.uk/decisions/LTS.LR.1992.2.html

I wish you luck

[rustyme]

the hedge would be yours then , the farmer could only cut upto the fence in that case. I think by law he would even be obliged to give you back any trimmings ? I don't know all or even most laws on spraying , but I know that there are new EU laws that state that for certain sprays the sprayer MUST have a licence to spray the chemical , he must be trained to spray it and he must use the correct sprayer and on suitable days. I know some farmers that have to wear complete chemical proof suits when spraying now, where only a few years ago they could just spray how they wanted!!! I thank god that my neighbour just spreads slurry onto the fields next to mine, mind you thats bad enough in summer with no wind to blow the smell away, my land is in a valley and the smell can hang around for days .... The only thing I can suggest is that you phone up defra and just ask what the laws on spraying are , or where to look for the appropriate regulations on their web site? There are most likely different rules for different sprays too , so unless you know what your neighbour is spraying , it may be very vague? I am sorry for your friend too, I hate to think what I have been sprayed with over the years ? I have been covered maybe a dozen times , doesn't bear thinking about !!!! My neighbour wanted to cut my hedge back with one of those b**tard flail things ....( there were other things he was going on about too) , well , I was in a foul mood that day so told him to ****ff and if he did  cut it, I would kick the crap out of him !!!! The hedge has remained uncut (so far ) . He is one of those people that if you gave an inch he would take a mile , he even  just stole two fields from another neighbour ,nearly 12 acres. The other chap is old and doesn't want to kick up a fuss , well the first one knows this and took advantage of it ... let him try it with me ......suffice to say I haven't always been as I am now !!!!  These things are a real minefield though , and my reaction to it would be different to yours . You could maybe try scare tactics? ask him what he is spraying ? as you are severely allergic to many chemicals and could die if exposed to them !!! So if he could let you know what he is spraying and when,you could make a point of being out when he does spray. At least that way you would know what is being sprayed ? , and he may think twice about using it even ? As they say , many ways to skin a cat .....

cheers

Russ

[Rosemary]

Makes you wonder is anything that requires the operator to be in a full chemical suit shoudl be sprayed anywhere

[northfifeduckling]

Thanks for or all your moral support and useful advice! The first step appears to be Defra now, the Council's probably useless there...As it is about protecting our livestock after all (who cares about us and our vegetables, not mentioning our hedge), we might have a leg to stand on. I want to have a good "portfolio" together when speaking to the new generation of landowners (the previous elderly couple sadly died). In the olden times we had runaway cows, horses chased by their riders and even parts of the fox hunt going through our garden (hence the tall hedge!), but we let it go. But the guy renting the land for the last few years and spraying whatever and whenever he pleases really does challenge me and my goodwill...

[doganjo]

Do you know who he rents the land from? Perhaps you could contact them? I was going to post earlier that you could let Defra know that he is spraying without protection and that you were concerned for your own land and animals.  The downside is he might become more aggressive if he finds out it was you that reported it - perhaps that's not an issue though.
I had a difficult neighbour in my last home - always making unusual noises to make the dogs bark then reporting me to the Dog Warden.  I tried giving him gifts of fresh eggs, and all he could say was how nice and quiet it had been one day and how nice it was that I was taking his discomfort onboard.  I wasn't - he had visitors all day and wasn't down at the fence making a noise.  I gave up after that - reckoned he was passive aggressive. Dog warden was a friend anyway but he didn't know that.  She said just to ignore him as she knew my dogs didn't bark.  But I was SOOOO glad I found this house down here and sold the last one - super neighbours now.
Good luck whatever you decide, Kirsten, and keep us posted

[rustyme]

exactly Rosemary  !!!! I asked one farmer I know, why he needed the suit and he said "new laws" , he also said  that you wouldn't want any of the chemical on you at all !!! " It WILL KILL YOU"  ,but he was spraying  barley which was  to be used as feed for his BEEF CATTLE .......and where do they end up ? ye gods .....is it me ? lets spray a food grain with a highly toxic substance that will KILL man , and then feed it to cattle that WE will then EAT !!!!! WTF ?? it beggers belief......oh and the chemical container had the hazard warning sign on it and it WAS  CARCINOGENIC ( can't remember exactly which one it was now though !!) , maybe I have got it all wrong it is perfectly safe and ok to use a known carcinogen on a feed that will eventually end up in US ..... perfectly safe, no way can it work it's way down to us ? or even the cattle? However , you must not buy a goji berry plant that was grown outside the EU !!!!!! It MAY ?? have some disease? Spray some of that bl**dy stuff on it then !!!!!....

cheers

Russ

[doganjo]

Now calm down Russ, you don't want to give yourself a heart attack.   The bad people won't bother you anyway, they don't like folk that stand up for decent principles

[rustyme]

  lol.... already had one of those Annie !!!! and I wasn't even throwing a wobbly then  !!!!! As for the bad people ... I just do unto them as they do unto me ....ONLY BETTER 

cheers

Russ

[hexhammeasure]

as a thought does't the farmer have to leave a couple of metres beside the hedge as a beetle bank as part of his SFP cross compliance? If he does then he could get fined from defra for non compliance. Any defra or trading standards man would know

[northfifeduckling]

It might take Defra up to 14 days to reply to my email. I had a reply from PAN (Pesticide Action Network), saying the same as some  of you
Quote "Unfortunately, you have very few rights here, so the best thing is to try to build up a relationship with the farmer and reach an informal agreement. There is no legal obligation for the farmer to leave a buffer zone, or to notify you before spraying, but both of these actions would be considered good practice, especially as you have organic crops and livestock."
I am not holding my breath...As this farmer in question is not a person we can speak to (we are not worthy...), it will be the land owners. Just had an idea, as they rent out some land to a cattle farmer as well. I wouldn't mind any amount of sheep rather than conventional crops next to us....