[Blueeyes]

Hi a bit of advice would be gratefully received, we have been offered rye hay, meadow hay, barley bales and wheat bales at really reasonable prices but don't want to give the wrong thing to our ponies, are any of these suitable for ponies? We have 2 minature Shetland ponies who at the moment have bales of hay to eat in their shires hay bag and then we use unibed for their bedding, as I like them to have totally clean stable bedding at all times we use quite a lot and so being offered these at a good price we were wondering if they would be suitable?

Thanks so much as always for reading and replying!

Blueeyes xx

[ellied]

Meadow hay is lovely but may be too rich for Shetlands, so I'd go for rye hay which is slightly coarser myself. 

And I'd also feed/bed with barley straw but not wheat.  Again personal choice.  I use barley and oat straw to supplement fat natives through winter rather than give them ad lib hay or have them standing for hours waiting for the next meal and shouting everytime they see me (neighbours and I would both feel bad )  It is chopped oat straw that is the main ingredient in most chaffs you buy in bags but in a bale it can be cut too short for that reason, so it falls apart easily and I now tend to get barley straw instead which is more freely available anyway.

I have Highlands not Shetlands but feeding too much or too rich will be just as much an issue if not more so - there are more experienced shetland folk on here but that's my 2p worth

[Rosemary]

I wouldn't bed Shetlands on anything they can eat, because you then lose control of a restricted diet.

We feed hay all year, to try to counteract grass sickness which is common here, but grazing is VERY restricted during the summer. At the moment they are strip grazing a paddock during the day, getting two wee chaff feeds and 6kg of hay between them. In winter, I feed hay, not the very best, but will give them a leaf or two of straw every day is they are hanging around the gate. Oat straw is best, but I have barley straw so use that.

I work on ponies needing 1% of their bodyweight in forage to maintain gut function and 2% to maintain weight, so I feed somewhere between that, depending on how fat they are and how much grass there is.

The total weight of our three is about 1150kg, so last winter in the snow, I was feeding 18kg of hay a day in three feeds plus their buckets.

[SallyintNorth]

A lot of horsey folk will only feed 'over-year' hay, ie., hay from the preceeding summer, as it loses nutritional value the longer it's kept.

Quite a few knowledgeable native pony folk that I know feed only straw - usually barley straw - as it is less nutritious than hay so keeps the ponies munching for longer.  I am planning to give my Fells only or mostly straw this winter as they have got quite fat over the summer.  (But they will only get straw or hay when there's no grass to eat, eg., when they are stabled for some reason and/or when the grass is covered in snow, until they are losing weight faster than I want them to.)

I think rye hay would be more fattening than meadow hay - farmers grow rye grass to fatten sheep and run less sheep per acre on meadow hay.  Meadow hay is more varied, but probably has less protein and less calories per kilo, I would think.

HTH

[Blueeyes]

Thanks guys for your replies, it amazes me how everyone does it all differently, I wish there was a book saying exactly what should be done for each animal and when, but I guess animals are like people - all different!

We're trying to do our best for our animals and they are all very happy and healthy so I guess we're doing something right 

Thinking we might keep going with what we're doing now and bugger the extra money!!!

Thanks again

Blueeyes xx

[lachlanandmarcus]

Agree that rye hay could well be a lot more fattening than meadow (tho it does also depend on when made, weather etc). The fatty version  of horsehage haylage is the ryegrass one and it is a lot higher energy and protein than the lighter versions which have mainly timothy.

Oat straw is good for feeding to ponies but not for bedding ponies who might be tempted to eat straw (risk of weight gain from the sheer amount, plus risk of colic as it is thicker stalks than hay). It is a little more nutritious than the other straws and more palatable. I managed to get some nice oat straw a few weeks back, nice long stalk.

Straw ideally wouldnt be the sole forage as it is very low in protein and vits and mins, so ideally mix it with some late cut older timothy hay. Preferably soak the hay to bring down the sugars (if soak for 12 hours you can reduce by 35%ish). Dont soak the straw, it just goes nasty!

Also agree on the bodyweight calculations and remember than daily percentage includes the grass they eat too (assume 1kg per hour eaten and of that maybe 20% of the grass is dry matter which is what you need to calculate).

[wellies]

Hi, Meadow hay has the advantage of having a wider variety of herbage and therefore can often satify the grazing behaviour of the ponies/horses better. In some studies horses were found to reduce stereotypical behaviour when fed meadow rather than a seed hay. Generally seed hay has a higher calorific value and so is not great for those on a restricted diet. It is all down to personal preference and of course individualities of the horse. Alot of pony owners feed hay in low nutritional value in the winter as it takes alot of fermentation in the gut to be broken down and therefore produces more internal heat - keeping the pony warm in the colder conditions.
Barley straw is best for bedding horses or ponies on but with more food orientated animals this can be too tempting and can be costly to keep replacing it each morning when you are down to a bare floor. One of my ID loves to straw so is now on shavings, much to his horror 
as stated in the previous post, horses/ponies who need to loose weight or not gain weight the best thing to do is soak the hay for at least 12 hours. This reduces the sugar content but provides the animal with the roughage component of the diet to maintain gut function and internal heat production for warmth in the winter. Reducing the nutrient component of the hay this much does mean that the horse or pony will require an additional vitamin and mineral supplement to ensure a balanced diet. I must admit though in the winter there is nothing worse than freezing cold hands and dragging soaked hay around the yard

[Rosemary]

Also agree on the bodyweight calculations and remember than daily percentage includes the grass they eat too (assume 1kg per hour eaten and of that maybe 20% of the grass is dry matter which is what you need to calculate).

That's useful - so 5 hours turnout would be 5kg grass, so 1kg of dry matter?

Some day, I'm going to weigh grass to see how much a kg looks like. The was Smokey stuffs it in his gob, I reckon he can get more than that down his throat  Dan asked once how he breathed, since he didn't seem to stop for breath. I pointed out that he breathed through his nose and ate with his mouth so there was no need to stop. 

[rbarlo32]

any reason they are being kept in. with ours they would have no bedding left. keep weighing them that will tell you how they are doing. itsso easy to over feed them.

[lachlanandmarcus]

Also agree on the bodyweight calculations and remember than daily percentage includes the grass they eat too (assume 1kg per hour eaten and of that maybe 20% of the grass is dry matter which is what you need to calculate).

That's useful - so 5 hours turnout would be 5kg grass, so 1kg of dry matter?

Some day, I'm going to weigh grass to see how much a kg looks like. The was Smokey stuffs it in his gob, I reckon he can get more than that down his throat  Dan asked once how he breathed, since he didn't seem to stop for breath. I pointed out that he breathed through his nose and ate with his mouth so there was no need to stop. 

haha!! yes that sounds familiar!!!!! Liesel gets fat licking velcro (which is usually what her field resembles)!

The dry matter of grass calculation I've read a few places, I cant verify it but it seems to make sense and at least gives some basis for including the grazing when you are trying to control overall intake.

As a guide, in a special dengie measuring bucket, which is the size of a normal size feed lick tub, 1kg of dry chop eg hifilite fills it about 3/4 or 4/5  full. So 1kg of grass might be similar, altho of course it would only provide 200g of dry matter, you would need 5kg to get the 1kg of dry.

[SallyintNorth]

Also agree on the bodyweight calculations and remember than daily percentage includes the grass they eat too (assume 1kg per hour eaten and of that maybe 20% of the grass is dry matter which is what you need to calculate).

That's useful - so 5 hours turnout would be 5kg grass, so 1kg of dry matter?

This whole thread has been very useful.

But - I don't think grazing can equate to only 0.2kg DM / hour, or the largest equine which could be supported on grass alone would be 230 kg (working on 23 hours grazing per day - they have to sleep a little bit!)

So either my Fells and Dales' eat faster than that and/or the Fells & Dales' need a lot less than 2% of their bodyweight to maintain their weight - and/or they get a lot more than 1kg DM out of 5 hours' grazing.

I'd love to know how I should work it out, though!  Last winter I got Davy down to the right weight (he has got withers!) by keeping him on very very poor ground and giving him about 1/3 bale hay per day only when the snow was on the ground.  He's an absolute pudding again now, having been on his share of about 6 acres of very rough grazing (the rest of the area being reshes) with three other ponies all summer.

The was Smokey stuffs it in his gob, I reckon he can get more than that down his throat  Dan asked once how he breathed, since he didn't seem to stop for breath. I pointed out that he breathed through his nose and ate with his mouth so there was no need to stop. 

    Aye, I have one like that (Fat Boy Davy  )

[wellies]

the native breeds should realistically be able to maintain their body weight on grass alone. The exact amount they will eat within an hour depends on several factors - length of grass, herbage availability, how long they are turned out for, requirement for play, social interaction, competition etc. From an evoluntionary point of view the native breeds to the uk have developed to utilise energy far more efficiently than other horse breeds. Although they have the same anatomy and physiological processes occuring their energy conversion to fat is far more effective. This is why we generally see higher incidences of metabolic diseases such as insulin resistance and laminitis in our native stock. They are designed to be able to survive on forage of poor nutritional quality however they are often kept on land which historically has been used for bovine prduction giving higher yields of protein and energy for production purposes. The calculation of a feed ration is based on generalisation with the 2 - 2.5% tbw being given as a figure for a horse at maintenance i.e. to provide enough energy to fuel physiological function, work requirements are then added after this. There is a huge fluctuation of between 1.5 - 2.5% of tbw to maintain weight, gain or loose weight in differing breeds and individuals within those breeds. There is that great question - is feeding a horse an art or a science? To be honest I feel it is both and often start with the calculations and adjust the ration from there according to the individual animal (size, breed, weight, temperament, weather conditions, rider ability etc should also be accounted for)

[honeyend]

I have a variaty of native ponies and the biggest problem with them is over feeding not under feeding. There are lots of web sites that have really got information about their feeding but one of the main things they are supposed to lose weight in winter as this allows then to gain weight in spring without health problems
  For a fat hairy 1-1.5% of body weight is fine, if they look hungrey you can give extra straw to eat, everyone goes on about oat but they will be just as happy with good clean barley. If you are worried about vits and minerals Baileys Low cal or a feed balancer.
  The biggest problem for a Shetti is they do b****r all so all there is to do is eat, rest a bit then eat more, oh and then be a B****r to catch. So make sure they live out as much as possible, no rugs not matter what the weather.
  I read somewhere that a Shetland can eat its whole nutrional requirement in a hours good grazing
 ''A hunter requires an average of 75 MJ per day for maintenance - more in winter). A small hay bale weighs about 20kg with an energy content of about 7MJ/kg (meadow hay) to 12MJ/kg (best racehorse) so 1/2 bale (10kg)of meadow hay will yield about 70 MJ of digestible energy''.

[robert waddell]

not that long ago i saw two shetlands in a shed with blankets
 

[Blueeyes]

Wow thanks everyone for such a lot of useful info! As you can probably tell we are totally new to this lifestyle 

Our two shetlands share a couple of acres with a few Shetland sheep during the day and then at night we pit the ponies into their night time paddock which also has a Stanley attached which they sleep in, tho they have full access to the paddock at all times.

They don't have blankets or rugs though I do worry about them especially when they are drenched with the rain, they never seem to go into their stable during the day to shelter preferring to stand in the middle of the field getting soaked. I have parted their coats to check it is dry next to their skin and it always seems to be, I thought they would have thicker coats by now though?!?

Our farrier always says they look in great condition and their hooves look really healthy 

And as to my original post of what bedding I think we will continue with what we have been doing all along, though are going to source and buy some rubber matting for the stable floor, I don't think it's worth changing for the sake of saving a few pounds a month.

Thanks again for all of the replies we have learnt a lot from them 

Blueeyes xx