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Author Topic: Pig ID in Scotland  (Read 8253 times)

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Pig ID in Scotland
« on: November 11, 2011, 03:43:21 pm »
Having just read through my new guidance document (twice) I am a bit stumped as to the ID requirements.

What do (non breeding) pigs that have moved onto my holding with a temporary mark while under 12 months old have to have as ID while they are fattened on my holding?  They will of course get their slaughter tags (my herd number) prior to moving off to the abattoir, but that number is not the holding of birth. Would it not have been much clearer if all pigs moving away from their holding of birth have to be eartagged on leaving there as do sheep/goats? Do I still need to complete the form for Trading standards or is this new system replacing that?

It also seems to be very convoluted that both the sender and the receiver have to separately inform the powers that are... what a waste of everybody's time.... maybe I am missing the point, but what's the reason for that?

Has anyone signed up to the ScotEID database yet - any impressions?


Rosemary

  • Joined Oct 2007
  • Barry, Angus, Scotland
    • The Accidental Smallholder
Re: Pig ID in Scotland
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2011, 04:36:36 pm »
I got two copies of the guidance this morning. Haven't read either yet.

The whole traceablility thing makes me laugh when the abattoir / butcher managed to "lose" HappyHippy's pig ::)

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Pig ID in Scotland
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2011, 04:41:51 pm »
anke yes i agree but anybody that buys from me there pigs are marked with my herd number  (what it should be )
rosemary lose is just a general term  they sold it or gave it away to somebody :farmer:

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: Pig ID in Scotland
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2011, 06:07:45 pm »
I got my copy through today too  :thumbsup:
Can't make head nor tails of it - though this was probably down to the 2 year old screaming in my ear, the one year old pulling my hair and the quantity of painkillers I'm on  ::) I'll not be barn dancing again anytime soon  :D

As far as I know (but only from reading the draught legislation, so it's probably changed since then  ::)) moving from farm to farm under a year (as in the case of buying weaners) can still be done on a paint mark, the only real change in regard to the paintmark is (I think !) with markets - they can't have pigs for sale which aren't ID'd (got to have breeders/sellers herd mark on them somewhere) but the ID for slaughter stays the same - metal tag/slapmark.

Rosemary - I agree ! What's the point in all this 'legislation' when a carcass manages to go astray ?  :-\
I've said it before, & I'll say it again..... no matter how much legislation you've got, you can't legislate against idiots  :o (I don't mean that in a derogatory sense against anyone on here - I mean numpties at slaughterhouses who can't read  >:()
Karen  :wave:

oaklandspigs

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • East Sussex
    • OaklandsPigs
Re: Pig ID in Scotland
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2011, 06:15:40 pm »
Anke,

When I looked up the legislation, Scotland now has the same rules as England & Wales.

In E&W (and now in scotland) any pig under one year old (except on a move to slaughter) can move on a temporary mark, and once moved does not need any further ID whilst it remains on the destination farm.  the rules "start again" when it is next moved ie if still under one year old, another temp mark, if over a year old tag or tattoo of sending farms herdmark, or tag/slap if to slaughter.

As I am not in Scotland, I have not had a pack, but looking on-line is it the "Pig Identification and Registration – Guidance for Keepers in Scotland" book you are looking at - and if so on what page is your confusion.

A brief look at the ScotEID (again I can't register unless I move!), and it seems to be much less confusing than E&W, and they are sensibly not collecting Animal transport certificate (ATC) info. This will mean that you may/will have to still create a paper doc with this info on, but they give you a proforma

http://www.scoteid.com/Public/Documents/pigs/possible_move_doc.pdf

Which would capture what scotaldn thinks an ATC will need.

Be grateful you don't live in E&W where a more complec system is in place !
www.Oaklandspigs.co.uk
"Perfect Pigs" the complete guide to keeping pigs; One Day Pig Courses in South East;
Weaners for sale - Visit our site for details

oaklandspigs

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • East Sussex
    • OaklandsPigs
Re: Pig ID in Scotland
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2011, 06:17:21 pm »
I the only real change in regard to the paintmark is (I think !) with markets - they can't have pigs for sale which aren't ID'd (got to have breeders/sellers herd mark on them somewhere) but the ID for slaughter stays the same - metal tag/slapmark.

That would be consistent with E&W
www.Oaklandspigs.co.uk
"Perfect Pigs" the complete guide to keeping pigs; One Day Pig Courses in South East;
Weaners for sale - Visit our site for details

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Pig ID in Scotland
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2011, 06:25:18 pm »
oaklands  that is the publication    that is the one that states sheep goats and cattle are subject to a 13 day standstill when you move pigs on  (page 11 first para ) :farmer:

ambriel

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Kinlochbervie, NW Sutherland, Scotland
  • Mad, bad, and dangerous to know!
    • Harbour Cottage
Re: Pig ID in Scotland
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2011, 10:09:14 pm »

I've only lipped through it so far (arrived today, too), but one thing I did notice is that it appears we in Scotland can now apply for a walking permit for pigs.

I'm tempted to apply for one, just for the badness. I wonder whether they'd grant one, given that the local crofters sheep wander the streets freely here.

oaklandspigs

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • East Sussex
    • OaklandsPigs
Re: Pig ID in Scotland
« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2011, 04:42:14 pm »
oaklands  that is the publication    that is the one that states sheep goats and cattle are subject to a 13 day standstill when you move pigs on  (page 11 first para ) :farmer:
Thanks Robert for confirmation, and will read properly when I get a minute, however it does seem that both north and south of the border now have identical ID.

It is of course always good to see uniformity in disease control, I can only presume 13 days in Scotland rather than the 6 in England & Wales for non-pigs is because germs take longer to er... germinate in colder temperatures - it can't possibly be because someone is just making this stuff up can it ???

www.Oaklandspigs.co.uk
"Perfect Pigs" the complete guide to keeping pigs; One Day Pig Courses in South East;
Weaners for sale - Visit our site for details

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Pig ID in Scotland
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2011, 05:05:45 pm »
perish the though that some tit is just making it up :D :farmer:

ambriel

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Kinlochbervie, NW Sutherland, Scotland
  • Mad, bad, and dangerous to know!
    • Harbour Cottage
Re: Pig ID in Scotland
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2011, 06:18:57 pm »
perish the though that some tit is just making it up :D :farmer:
I wonder whether William Hill's are offering odds on this? ;)

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Pig ID in Scotland
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2011, 10:00:12 pm »
Oh well, I had thought that it may actually make some sense to have the same ID requirements for sheep/goats and pigs, as in eartags/tattoo from holding of birth, so that there is a chance of traceablity - this way they are going to be slaughtered with my herd number, but were bred in a different holding... but hey that would just be too sensible...

So for the time being my girls will have no tattoos or body piercings - bet they would love some though...

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Pig ID in Scotland
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2011, 01:13:06 am »
Oh well, I had thought that it may actually make some sense to have the same ID requirements for sheep/goats and pigs, as in eartags/tattoo from holding of birth, so that there is a chance of traceablity - this way they are going to be slaughtered with my herd number, but were bred in a different holding... but hey that would just be too sensible...

So for the time being my girls will have no tattoos or body piercings - bet they would love some though...

BH still can't get over his incredulity at being able to move weaners with nothing more than a temporary paint mark.

I can see that, given the way pigs play with each other (and sometimes fight), it is not necessarily a good idea to apply eartags to young pigs; better to do it at the last moment. 

Ear tattoos could be mandated though, couldn't they?  Though perhaps they're not visible on black ears? 
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

oaklandspigs

  • Joined Nov 2009
  • East Sussex
    • OaklandsPigs
Re: Pig ID in Scotland
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2011, 08:56:57 am »
The problems with putting eratags on piglets are :

a) You need to allow space for the ear to grow.  If the pig is going to be a breeding sow, the ear will be considerably bigger, so if you don't allow growth room (large air gap at the edge) the tag gorws inton the ear, and can acuse distress and infection.  We have had to cut out tags from pigswhich we have bought for breeding as they were too close (allowed for medical reasons) and removing a tag takes a good deal of skill and patience (both yours and the pigs).  As Sally says there is also a much greater risk of earb damage due to play etc.

b) If you bought a fattener with a tag at say 8 weeks old, you must also tag or slap it when you take it to the abattoir - pigs must have ID of the holding it is travelling from.  Therefore the pig would end up with two ID's, which at best means the abattoir has to do two reads to check which pig it is, and at worst adds confusion, as the abattoir only reads one (presuming both to be the same), and then can't find the paperwork.

Ear tattoos are the hardest thing to read on a clean pig, let alone one that has been outside for a while - and again we are after a proportional response here. 

I would argue that any ID on a pig (or sheep for that matter) is pointless, as all the authorities need to know is that an animal has moved onto holding b from holding a.  If disease breaks out and holding a has it, all holding b's animals are killed anyway, no matter where they came from.  Trouble is that  authorities think we all flout the rules and without ID would move animals without telling anyone, so they went down the route where we start id'ing things, and then when sheep lose tags, we get to individual ID, then EID with cross referencing -  anyone would think we were handling nuclear watse. So we now know every cow in GB, but have no idea how many people live here !  Hey ho Sunday rant over !

 

www.Oaklandspigs.co.uk
"Perfect Pigs" the complete guide to keeping pigs; One Day Pig Courses in South East;
Weaners for sale - Visit our site for details

robert waddell

  • Guest
Re: Pig ID in Scotland
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2011, 09:18:53 am »
a few points on your last deliberation oaklands      tattoos can and are seen on the right color of ear maybee you should go on one of bill Howe's courses for tattooing
the pig with two ids you buy a calve you don't change the tag you don't re-tag and if it goes to slaughter it is id as where it came from where it was born etc    what is wrong why have pigs to be different
the sheep id is a load of b*****ks have you not seen the vast quantity's of sheep that are stolen never to reapear  so eid does not work
as to handling nuclear waste    if the commodity is worth money some one will devise a way to skim a bit off for themselves :farmer:

 

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