[Padge]

Good morning

Would anyone know where i can get my soil tested to check for grazing quality for sheep.

Many Thanx

[waterhouse]

We used http://www.macaulaysoils.com/ who provided a kit with instructions for getting reliable samples which we sent off.  We did a selection of different paddocks because our land changes dramatically down the slope but we knew that it was lime poor. 

Results came back in detail with recommendations for action by email in about ten days

[Rosemary]

We had five done by our local fertilizer company - cost about £100 for the five. Details pH, P and K, major nutrients and trace elements (Mg, Ca, S, Mn, Cu, B, Zn,Mb, Fe, Na), showing result, guideline, whether very low, slightly low, normal, high or very high plus comments eg Calcium was low in one of ours - comment was "If pH low, use calcium limestone". Those that are important for animal health are noted e.g. our sodium levels are very low, so that was commented upon.

The company is Yara. The rep didn't put any pressure on us to buy anything though.

[dyedinthewool]

Hi,

We did a DIY test - we knew it had a high PH so limed with half the rate, need to get a proper test done now.  Luckily we know a man whose company has something to do with lime and he has offered to get one done for us (no help to you though)

We did have our grass tested by Jganimalhealth (as recommended by VSS in a previous thread)
calcium was low - so still needing lime.
Manganese was high - but that's  normal for our area we live in...
Zinc was a little low.
Cobalt and Selenium -very low
Iodine - low
While Copper was okay it is being locked by the (I think the Manganese) so was very low.
Molybdenum was very high.

Not sure how to read these results - maybe someone on here does and can explain in simple terms so that I can,  PLEASE.

We had a drench from JG that is high in copper plus other trace/minerals.

Is it worth putting on a trace fertiliser at some time? or just easier to give a drench a couple of time as year.

I think I've read somwhere that  'not getting the right trace/minerals' can affect the fertility and health of ewes and unborn lambs?

So much to learn about sheep and pasture

[VSS]

Low Cobalt and selenium and copper that is locked up will mean that your lambs will not grow as they should and will not thrive, probably have dry harsh wool and generally be a little poor, particularly if they are not getting supplementary feed.

Talk to Jonathon Guy and he will explain it all and work out a dosing programme for you.

I would recommend him and his jollop 100%  - the difference in our lambs this year has been staggering.

[dyedinthewool]

Low Cobalt and selenium and copper that is locked up will mean that your lambs will not grow as they should and will not thrive, probably have dry harsh wool and generally be a little poor, particularly if they are not getting supplementary feed.

Talk to Jonathon Guy and he will explain it all and work out a dosing programme for you.

I would recommend him and his jollop 100%  - the difference in our lambs this year has been staggering.

Jonathon is great and he did explain it to me but at my age things have to be explained at least twice before it sinks in   I have given it to my lambs as per weight/dose intructions, hopefully will see some improvement in the five lambs I bought in. Jonathan said give every 3-4 months?

Didn't give it to the ewes as 'fingers crossed' they are all in lamb (says on the bottle to give pre tupping and prelambing)  Didn't have the drench in time for pre tupping.  But will give pre lambing though not sure when, 4 weeks -6 weeks before?  and wether I give to the new lambs and at what age.?

Didn't like to bother Jonathan as he seems very busy hasn't had time to send me the bill yet...

[Pasture Farm]

Brilliant post

Who is Jonothan Guy   or did i miss something ?

[VSS]

Who is Jonothan Guy   or did i miss something ?

He runs this - http://www.jganimalhealth.co.uk/

[VSS]

Low Cobalt and selenium and copper that is locked up will mean that your lambs will not grow as they should and will not thrive, probably have dry harsh wool and generally be a little poor, particularly if they are not getting supplementary feed.

Talk to Jonathon Guy and he will explain it all and work out a dosing programme for you.

I would recommend him and his jollop 100%  - the difference in our lambs this year has been staggering.

Jonathon is great and he did explain it to me but at my age things have to be explained at least twice before it sinks in   I have given it to my lambs as per weight/dose intructions, hopefully will see some improvement in the five lambs I bought in. Jonathan said give every 3-4 months?

Didn't give it to the ewes as 'fingers crossed' they are all in lamb (says on the bottle to give pre tupping and prelambing)  Didn't have the drench in time for pre tupping.  But will give pre lambing though not sure when, 4 weeks -6 weeks before?  and wether I give to the new lambs and at what age.?

Didn't like to bother Jonathan as he seems very busy hasn't had time to send me the bill yet...

We give our ewes a dose 4 weeks pre tupping and also 4 weeks pre lambing ( at the same time as giving the Heptavac P booster0). Lambs are being dosed at 6 weeks, before going to the mountain for the summer (beginning of May for us) and again in mid July.  Ewe lambs being kept as replacements  and any ram lambs kept as potential breeding stock get a dose in October before they go away for  wintering. The shearling rams get a dose 8 weeks before they go to sale.

He is busy, but he will want you to get the best results (as it is good for him too) so give him a call. I am sure he won't mind.

[SallyintNorth]

We don't give minerals pre-tupping as we don't want lots of lambs - just lots of ewes each with a single healthy lamb!  We give minerals post-tupping instead to help with implantation and early pregnancy, a second dose a couple of months pre-lambing and a third dose at weaning.

I'm sure Jonathan would've noticed and commented if you had any Texel-type sheep... but it sounds like you are a bit like me and it's hard to remember new things, especially if there's a lot of new information all at once.  So I'll mention it again - Texels and some other breeds are copper-intolerant, so take care giving a drench high in copper to them.  It's a cumulative effect, so you may not see any ill-effects straight away but over time it could affect their livers.  However, if your ground, like ours, is very low in copper then, like us, you can probably get away with it.  And in the case of very copper-deficient ground, the non-Texels will certainly need it for their own health and in the second half of pregnancy to prevent swayback in the lambs.

We give the lambs a mineral drench at weaning, or earlier if there seems to be a reason.  Keeping lambs then get another going into the winter.

[dyedinthewool]

We used http://www.macaulaysoils.com/ who provided a kit with instructions for getting reliable samples which we sent off.  We did a selection of different paddocks because our land changes dramatically down the slope but we knew that it was lime poor. 

Results came back in detail with recommendations for action by email in about ten days

We had five done by our local fertilizer company - cost about £100 for the five. Details pH, P and K, major nutrients and trace elements (Mg, Ca, S, Mn, Cu, B, Zn,Mb, Fe, Na), showing result, guideline, whether very low, slightly low, normal, high or very high plus comments eg Calcium was low in one of ours - comment was "If pH low, use calcium limestone". Those that are important for animal health are noted e.g. our sodium levels are very low, so that was commented upon.

The company is Yara. The rep didn't put any pressure on us to buy anything though.

What steps did you take with the results you had - did you need to lime - use a specific fertilizer such as a trace element fert.

We don't give minerals pre-tupping as we don't want lots of lambs - just lots of ewes each with a single healthy lamb!  We give minerals post-tupping instead to help with implantation and early pregnancy, a second dose a couple of months pre-lambing and a third dose at weaning.

I'm sure Jonathan would've noticed and commented if you had any Texel-type sheep... but it sounds like you are a bit like me and it's hard to remember new things, especially if there's a lot of new information all at once.  So I'll mention it again - Texels and some other breeds are copper-intolerant, so take care giving a drench high in copper to them.  It's a cumulative effect, so you may not see any ill-effects straight away but over time it could affect their livers.  However, if your ground, like ours, is very low in copper then, like us, you can probably get away with it.  And in the case of very copper-deficient ground, the non-Texels will certainly need it for their own health and in the second half of pregnancy to prevent swayback in the lambs.

We give the lambs a mineral drench at weaning, or earlier if there seems to be a reason.  Keeping lambs then get another going into the winter.

Hi Sally,

Yes he asked what breed of sheep did I have - A mixed bunch - a herdwick, a black sheep, plus their offspring and one that's has a clean liver brown face with a topknot that's a darkish fawn, (dark brown underneath her top fawn fleece)  Anybody any idea what 'breed' she could be??

As I had a disatreous time trying to get ewes in lamb last year (only succeeded with two- not me personally i mean the ram I had on loan did) I thought it must be the lack of vitimins/trace minerals at fault.  So went down the forage test route. Grass is not just grass is it!!!  if the soil is not right then the grass can't be right which means that the animals are not getting the right nutrients.

Like you I just want a healthy ewe with a healthy lamb at her side.

When you say yours have minerals do you mean tubs or a drench?

Mine have had Superlyx tubs (the red one) since the ram went in in early Sept - should I keep on supplying them until they lamb?  They do seem to get through them quite quickly...

They have all been covered by the ram and have not come back into season, so presume (fingers crossed) that they are all in lamb.  First due end of January. 

[SallyintNorth]

When you say yours have minerals do you mean tubs or a drench?

We use a drench from our local ruminant nutrition expert; I imagine the JG one is much the same.  The important thing is to get one where the major elements are chelated; they'll last 6-8 weeks in the system then, not just give the sheep a short-term lift.

You don't then need licky tubs - although we do put out magnesium and pre-lambing ones in the month or so before lambing; it seems to help avoid twin lamb disease and other metabolic disorders.

[Padge]

Many Thanx for the brilliant replies and information.

The reason for my original question was we crossed Pure Lleyn with Hampshire Down tup and produced a brilliant carcass 40+kg at 4 mths with no hard feed  (The sheep have only been on this grazing since beginning of March.)
We also put 8 pure bred Lleyn to a pure tup the results of which are less than poor, very low weight poor wool etc.
I am taking 6 of the Lleyn lambs to the vet for blood samples.
The sheep farmer that i go to for Dog training who runs 500 Ewes did say "copper" after his experience of keeping Lleyn Ewes, he also added that the part of Lincolnshire we live in is renound for low copper content, but i am reluctant to give anything until i know the reasons.
Strange how affectded different breeds and cross breeds are

[SallyintNorth]

Strange how affectded different breeds and cross breeds are

Your vet may come up with something else - but on the face of it, that's hybrid vigour for you!

[Pasture Farm]

Just spent ages talking with Johnathan Guy   

After explaining the problems in some of my purebreds and giving him information on all my other sheep he is 99.9% sure its copper deficency and has recommended a suitable remedy. So fingers crossed for next year and also the coiuple of this years lambs that i have retained

May i thank everyone for their advise and help   

PS Padge is my OH