[bucketman]

Well got the news a few months back (on my 50th b/day). So finally going for it. The prop we love is in Sutherland its got some land with it but mostly peat. The are
1Could you turn that into usable land
2 If not could we keep 2 or 3 pigs on it
3 Would our chucks be ok that far north
wont be moving till next June but would like to put offer in
rob

[SallyintNorth]

Hi Rob, that's a big step forward on your 5 year plan! 

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by peat land - if you mean it's peaty soil, then thank heaven for your good luck because it will grow well (though obviously be acidic so may need liming for some crops) and peat mud doesn't stick to your boots at all!  (Whenever I miss the sunny summers, I recall Wiltshire clay and the half-tonne boots you would be clumping around in as soon as the wet weather did come... and realise I am better off up here, even though we hardly ever get any kind of a summer.)

However, if you meant peaty moorland type ground, then read on.

Most people do not realise that an active peat bog sequesters more carbon than the same area of actively growing woodland.

If environmental sensitivity is important to you then you'll want to find out if the peat is active.  If so, and you want it to carry on actively sequestering carbon, then there will be very little improvement you can make to it. 

If it's already been killed off then, unless you want to explore reactivating it (which is not easy and cannot always be achieved), all you will do if you 'improve' it is release some or all of the carbon it holds.

Pigs and peat bog are not an ideal combination; the pigs' rootling will damage the peat and the bog will by definition be wet, which is not a pig's favourite environment.  I was advised by the National Park ecologist that 2 to 4 pigs on my 500 acre peat bog would probably be acceptable, but not more.  No that's not a typo, five hundred acres for a maximum of four pigs.  (We had 400+ sheep on there too, mind.  She might have let me have 10 pigs if we hadn't had any sheep!)

Having said all of which, there are fields in these parts which have been drained (vigorously!), ploughed and seeded and are grazed and mown for hay but which if left would revert to rushy dampness.   There are times when the ground, even though it's drained, is too wet for more than sheep and certainly too wet for a tractor.

If you can be a bit more specific about the ground I will try to be more helpful.

As to your chickens, so long as they have a windproof (but ventilated) house they can snuggle together in and always have somewhere to stretch and peck about that isn't covered in snow or frozen solid (a barn or stable is suitable for the worst of the weather), and you can keep some water thawed for them, they should be fine. 

Exciting times ahead!  Good luck with it all.

[rbarlo32]

pigs on deep peat will not be fun in winter. peat is not like clay it will take your wellies and foot wear. you should be able to find a small area that is better most crofts have a better bit. chickens will be fine plus you have loads have free fuel. you can turn peat into usuable grazing but it does cost a lot. you don't want to break through to the peat layer. loads of muck and lime.

[bucketman]

Thanks for the replies
First off the land we don't want much, a few big veggie beds just enough to feed us a bit fenced off for the chucks and the pigs (hopefully).
how much space would we have to sort out to keep 2 or 3 pigs.
A bit of the land is already a garden grass growing on it
the land we are going to use would all have to be fenced off as sheep already live there, they belong to one of the farmers and also deer walk all over the place so it would have to be high fencing
this is all on the land that comes with the house about 40 acres
Oh forgot to say its the sort of peat that you can cut for burning
rob

[SallyintNorth]

Oh forgot to say its the sort of peat that you can cut for burning

Well, that's the sort that sequesters carbon and releases it when it is cut or burnt.  So maintaining it is helping to reduce global warming, cutting and burning it would be a double whammy - it adds to global warming by the carbon released as it's burnt and, if it was still active before the cutting, reduces the amount of carbon that would be sequestered, and hence reduce global warming, if it were not cut.

If it is no longer actively growing then burning it is no worse than burning coal, or burning trees and not planting any more, I guess.  If it is actively growing and these things matter to you then you would need to take advice on how to harvest it without damaging the moss and on how much you could take from your patch and still call it renewable.  It grows very slowly.  It varies from site to site but I think it's of the order of 1cm depth per annum.  There are still active mosses that have been cut for fuel for hundreds if not thousands of years, so clearly there is a rate at which cutting is renewable.

It sounds as though it will be very very soft ground, so you will need a lot for pigs to not totally destroy their area and be comfortable.  I don't know what would be the right amount.  If you are talking 2 to 3 weaners to pork weight, then the same again, and so on, and would move the pen for each group, then I would think an acre or two per group might be enough.  But don't take that as gospel - you may need more, especially if it gets very wet.  If you would not be moving the pen around then one acre would very soon be trashed, I would think.  And I am not sure how much you can let the pigs dig up before the moss is killed off; a little bit of rootling won't hurt but wholescale ploughing will!

It sounds wonderful.  If you do get it and decide to have pigs and / or to cut the fuel, I would be very interested to know how you get on.  I am no longer on the moorland farm and never did have pigs there (not even 2 in 500 acres!), and we weren't allowed to cut for fuel at all (being part of a globally important mire system) but I was always fascinated to understand how it might work.

[robert waddell]

hi there bucketman    you can turn it into semi productive land
i am sure there was somebody  up your way drained a peat bog and cut silage from it with triple wheels all round (government grants made it possible) there was some thing about pig slurry being applied as well because he also had a large pig unit
pigs on peat  it just goes to slurry  but without seeing the land i cannot comment further
hens will survive anywhere as long as there are no predators

[SallyintNorth]

i am sure there was somebody  up your way drained a peat bog and cut silage from it with triple wheels all round (government grants made it possible)

Bonkers, isn't it.  Twenty years ago there were government grants to drain peat bogs and now they are looking at entire environmental schemes to support and sustain them - and are paying farmers to fill in the 'grits' that were put in with grants two decades ago...

[bucketman]

Will try and post pics to show you what the land was like. The people selling said that they cut enough peat for 3yrs at a time then leave it for 3yrs. The live stock and the veg would really be just for us and not a money making thing.
A little about the prop it has no mains electric this comes from a diesel generator ( will look into a wind turbine). It has LPG for hot water and heat. No mains water this comes from a spring and is filtered, waste water goes through a reed bed and then in to a river. The people selling have all the certs for all the water stuff off the water board to say its all been done properly
will try and post the pics
rob

[bucketman]

right here goes kept the house out shot as we have not bought it yet. One is of some peat on the land the other is of where starts the grass goes all round the prop the wife reckons bigger than 2 football pitches
Think I done that right if you click on them they get bigger
rob

[Womble]

Hi Bucketman. Check out this blog site for some ideas of what you can do with that sort of land - the answer is quite a lot it seems!!

[rbarlo32]

the bit with the trees is that yours. that area looks promising however the reeds in the next field looks like its very wet. the peat bank is very shallow. yo wan't deep peat for good burning. the one shown is hardly worth the effort. the locals will teach you most things, the peat if its active lays down at the rate of a mm per year. so 3ft is roughly a thousand years. don't worry you not going to run out of fuel theres plenty in that area.

for a few pigs go for three areas fenced off roughly 1/2 acre each and roatate them. you could house the pigs in winter to save the ground. is the croft under the crofters commision if so look that up you can get grants to improve your croft house. just don't rush it take your time and listern to your neigbours. and learn and get a food supply in if your moving in before winter.

[lachlanandmarcus]

We looked at a wee place in Sutherland - in summer we viewed it. We got out the car, were eaten alive by a million midges, ran into the cottage, looked round and ran back to the car......and left for Aberdeenshire where the wind and the drier ground means we could enjoy the ground....

....have you been there in early summer? just worried re midgies, it can really spoil the most stunning of places...

[shetlandpaul]

however the wee beasties need it very still for them to fly. so you learn that you will be bitten to death if you go out on a still evening. people cope with them even if you come out in big re sprodges.

[SallyintNorth]

I have a number of tactics for midges - but have never lived where they are really vile.  However, in case it helps, my tactics are:

• Always try to be with someone the midges really love.  They'll eat her/him in preference to you.
• Avoid evenings and sometimes early mornings when it's still
• Keep away from sheep and other livestock, and rushes, at the above times
• Wear clothes which cover as much as possible - long sleeves, cuffs done up; a hat; trousers tucked in socks, etc
• Eat Marmite three times a week - it's supposed to taint your sweat so they don't like the taste of you.

Don't tell (5) to the person in (1)   

[Bionic]

I went on a camping holiday to Scotland. It was a beautiful place next to a loch but the holiday was ruined by the midges. We couldn't eat outside in the evenings for fear of being eaten alive. They get right into your hair.

Other people on the site were wearing hats with full veils, long trousers and long sleeved shirts.

The scenery was stunning but I wouldn't knowlingly go to a midge area again.

Sally