[Anke]

I would not feed a castrated male on dairy nuts - he doesn't do anything and will just get fat. He would do well on hay and grass/branches, in the winter I would relent a little and give him goat mix. Dairy nuts are 18% protein, goat mix is less.

Dairy nuts are good for high-yielding dairy breeds of goats, but not so good for Golden Guernseys and I am certain Old English would also do better on smaller amounts of them.

I now take all dry goats off dairy nuts, especially during the early part of pregnancy, and also reduce them for milkers based on their condition if they are to be mated. Goatlings seem to be especially prone to be too fat.... my own fault I have to add. Difficult to know when to stop feeding kids on higher protein feeds to make sure they grow, especially the slower growing BTs... (but my BT goatling is now on grass and branches alone, soon I wil start to feed hay rather than grass).

[SallyintNorth]

Although I don't have goats, I have been interested in this conversation.

The following may or may not be relevant...

Up here the only real difference between 16% cattle and 16% sheep feed is the copper.  I haven't asked the question but I imagine the same is true for 18% feeds.  (I get a 20% parlour mix for Hillie; I don't think there is a 20% sheep feed - maybe Ram & Lamb Mix?)

Copper, although a necessary trace element for all species, is thought to be poisonous to sheep in large quantities.  Some breeds, specifically Texels, are particularly sensitive to high levels of copper and there have been some cases of death from burst livers in Texels given copper.

In these parts, all the ground is highly deficient in copper and the farmers hereabouts have found that copper in feed and drenches doesn't harm Texels on this ground.  We would all be careful not to be drenching Texels with a copper-containing drench and at the same time giving a feed containing added copper, though.

It seems that other breeds of sheep can take a lot more copper than Texels.

So firstly, do of course check the specific cattle feed you are using for your goats, but it may be that it would only really be harmful for Texel-type sheep and possibly not even then if your ground is highly copper-deficient.

I am also wondering whether an alternative to using cattle feed for your goats would be to use the equivalent (same protein %) sheep feed and, if the goats seem to need extra copper, to give them a chelated copper drench, or some other copper supplement, as appropriate?

[tizaala]

Problem I have with the cattle nut is that the one goat that needs it does not eat it. It tried everything but no even after 4 weeks she just does not eat them I do not want her to get even thinner. I mixed it in with the goat mix which she is not to keen either. Her favourite is soaked whole oats, rolled barley and a bit of goat mix but dairy nuts she will just leave. Oh and she also does not liek soaked sugar beet. Alfalfa and soya/grassnut pellets in small quantities is okish.

[Anke]

The GG's are not very keen on the dairy nuts either, often leave them in the bowl but clean everything else out! Goats are fussy eaters!

[Lesley Silvester]

Not come across cow nuts before.  Are they a complete feed?  My girls are on Allen and Page Smallholder Dairy Goat with some suger beet and seem to do well on it.

[wytsend]

Yes all dairy nuts for cows are a complete feed .  It is not only copper that goats require but all the same minerals/trace elements at the same level as dairy cattle.

When goats are reluctant to eat nuts/ other stuff,  try a molassed coarse calf mix.   Looks exactly the samer as goat mix but contains the higher level of minerals etc.

This is another reason why I have been working with a comp-any to produce this mineral mix to complement whatever people feed to there goats.

I have stipulated that higher levels of zinc (skin conditions) selenium (fertility etc) & calcium are vital for goats... they burn themselves out otherwise.

Cobalt is another problem.... it is to be withdrawn from animal feeds over the next year or two,  something to do with being in short suppl;y.... so I have asked for high levels of B12 to combat this.
All of this has been put into the mix... I have trialled it... it works !!!   Needs to be introduced very slowly.... but at least in feed, you know the goat has had the essential minerals........ YOU CANNOT RELY ON A GOAT TO USE LICKS  they just don't or in VERY small quantities.
I have also found that I can reduce the amount of hard feed to my girls... saving money... they carry on milking the same or better... most have now been covered this year.... put on weight and generally look fantatsic.

Goats are NOT sheep and should not be fed the same... their metabolic rate is roughly 3 times faster than a cow and they can get rid of surplus elements they do not require.
If you think about the body weight of a goat,  how much milk she produces for that weight.... then think about a cow & how much the average one produces.   Just how amazing is a goat !!!!!!

Perhapsd it is now clearer why we need to feed our girls for what they produce both in milk and then consider the number of kids she produces.  A cow has 1 calf.

Apart from all the above, dairy nuts are much cheaper than goat mixes !!!!!!

[jaykay]

I could only get calf nuts, they are having to order me some dairy nuts.
At least it's a change of food and Ellie's eating them well, mixed in with her goat mix. Of course the little boys think they would prefer them too 

I got some B12/cobalt/selenium etc. drench - she had some of that the other day - and spat quite a bit out ,

We have to give the sheep here Coppavit too, as the land is deficient in copper.

[mmu]

Someone asked if there was a supplement powder for horses.  Many years ago I used one for my Exmoor who got very thin and who was a different animal after having this.  I believe it was introduced by Spillers, but I don't know if they still make it.  It gave my pony many more years of active life, and is well worth a try.

[wytsend]

Why struggle to drench a goat when you can feed the minerals ??

The company I work with  produce a wonderful equine mineral for feed inclusion called Think Pink.

It is available by mail order.

The company is Denis Brinicombe & their website is   www.brinicombe.co.uk.      The best bit is the equine supplement is cheap !!!!!   I now would not feed any other  which is why I approached them to produce a well balanced goat mineral suitable for all goats.

If you contact them mention that Jane Ross gave you the website detail.

[ballingall]

Although I don't have goats, I have been interested in this conversation.

The following may or may not be relevant...

Up here the only real difference between 16% cattle and 16% sheep feed is the copper.  I haven't asked the question but I imagine the same is true for 18% feeds.  (I get a 20% parlour mix for Hillie; I don't think there is a 20% sheep feed - maybe Ram & Lamb Mix?)

Copper, although a necessary trace element for all species, is thought to be poisonous to sheep in large quantities.  Some breeds, specifically Texels, are particularly sensitive to high levels of copper and there have been some cases of death from burst livers in Texels given copper.

In these parts, all the ground is highly deficient in copper and the farmers hereabouts have found that copper in feed and drenches doesn't harm Texels on this ground.  We would all be careful not to be drenching Texels with a copper-containing drench and at the same time giving a feed containing added copper, though.

It seems that other breeds of sheep can take a lot more copper than Texels.

So firstly, do of course check the specific cattle feed you are using for your goats, but it may be that it would only really be harmful for Texel-type sheep and possibly not even then if your ground is highly copper-deficient.

I am also wondering whether an alternative to using cattle feed for your goats would be to use the equivalent (same protein %) sheep feed and, if the goats seem to need extra copper, to give them a chelated copper drench, or some other copper supplement, as appropriate?

You are right Sally- it does depend on your local area. The Perthshire hills are known for their lack of copper, and I know people who have really struggled with copper deficincy.

But yes- you can feed Sheep mix and just add the extra copper minerals. We feed sheep mix, some cattle dairy nuts, and add extra loose minerals.

Beth

[ballingall]

Oh, and to answer the original question- personally minerals and sheep/goat/cattle food debate is only a small part of it. To fatten up I would feed soaked sugar beet pulp, flaked barley (barley is better for adding weight than oats or wheat) and flaked peas.

Beth

[jaykay]

Thanks Beth - I'll see what I can get of those. I know she likes peas as she picks them out of any mix