[Leri]

Hiya. Some of you may know that I am not from a farm background and moved here to my husband's family's smallholding three years ago with my two children, two cats & one dog, after splitting up with my ex husband and meeting my new one - obviously there was a bit of a gap! Lol.
My spaniel Max was bought as a puppy from a petting farm - I did everything wrong - didn't see his mother etc. Just wanted a cocker spaniel as had one as a child and fell in love with this little man and bought him for my daughter's 6th birthday. I assumed he was a Springer as he is liver and white (I thought cockers didn't come in liver) - but was told he was definitly a cocker - but got no papers to say so.
When I took him to the vet for his first injection, the vet asked did I realise he was a working cocker and not the show type I'd had as a little girl - so was going to be quite a bit bigger. Obviously we loved him by then and didn't care. (Hadn't even realised till then there were two types)
As he's got bigger EVERYONE I meet tells me he is definitly a Springer!! So had settled on idea he must be a Sprocker. (Although surely that's a designer breed and worth a fortune! Lol - we'll never really know what he is tbh)
Anyway - i'm waffling!

Max never really settled as a house dog. He absolutely loved his walks and chasing a ball. He would run at birds and make them fly up - obviously from working stock and desperate to please and to have something to do. Used to feel bad for having bought him as a pet. He would pace the wooden floors at home there and often mess the carpet really badly most nights. Not nice to get up in the morning to!! :-(
took him to the vet about that and they said he needed sensitive diet - so he does have special food. I never felt he was really a happy dog though. Things between me and my ex husband were really bad and there were some terrible rows - also I think affecting poor Max :-(

Anyway, then everyone's dreams came true - not least Max's!!! We moved here - to a farm, where he lived in a run with six  -SIX other dogs (all female - yes he's been neutered) and slept in the utility room with one of them at night. (There are two houses here and the dogs are shared between them at night)
He has been loving life here  - loving being in the pack - just a completely different dog. Still bonkers - and if you ever tried him in the house still way too whippy tailed and unsettled but happy with the others.
There have been various changes like my husband and I swapped houses with his parents - so we go the bigger one - adopted a rescue sheepdog - and then more recently bought a lab puppy - all taken in Max's stride.
Then we got hens.
No problem at all - for a while - then one day the rescue sheepdog (Scooby) attacked one - the other dogs particularly Max - got involved and although the hen survived initially - it died afterwards.
We were more careful than ever - dogs all on leads for months - until they seemed all fully trained to ignore the hens - and have done again for months. Till a few days ago - when Max chased and attacked a hen - mostly alone - and he definitly started it, this one got away and was ok and I calmed everything down and we carried on.
But on Thursday - he went alone away from the other dogs, found and badly mangled another of the bluebells - who didn't survive the night - so basically - he's killed another one.
I think he's used up his chances here :-( but am heartbroken as the poor boy had such a bad start and seemed finally happy.
I'm torn between trying to find him another home, but would hate it if he ended up in a town again, don't want him branded a killer either.
Does anyone know anything about dog listening? Do you think it would help? Should I give him the chance? I may not be given the choice by Ger's mum (hen owner) or can anyone offer him a new forever home with other dogs and loads of runniong room xx

[shearling]

We have two spingers and they are the working breed and bonkers (but I believe that is a springer spaniel thing). Your story reminded on the film Finding Nemo and the sharks abstenence society. Not an expert but I would not trust either of mine near our birds alone. Ours were uncontrolable - but lovable - until they went to boarding school. They can learn to obey comands and know boundaries of what is excepatble or not but I would recomend that this is done by a spaniel/working dog breed expert. I have trained all my previous dogs (not working varieties very easily but I think these are a slightly more 'curved ball'. Sounds to me you have recognised he needs to be active and occupied else he finds things for his own excitment (at the hens regret).

[Fronhaul]

Definitely not too late to train him not to chase hens.  Second the idea you may need some help from someone who knows working dogs but not necessarily a behaviourist - there are some great trainers out there who understand dogs and obtain some wonderful results at far more modest cost.  In the meantime what are the hens living conditions?  I am thinking an electric fence to protect their area might be a short term solution perhaps? 

[shearling]

I am thinking an electric fence to protect their area might be a short term solution perhaps? 

Agree totally

[doganjo]

All of my dogs are or have been working gundogs, admittedly not springers, cockers or any other spaniel, and they point before they attack, but attack they would or rather, not attack to kill, but to retrieve.  My german Wirehair hoever was not soft mouthed like these and killed three of mine which insisted on jumping over the 4 foot fence. I therefore keep them in a run and they are only allowed to free range once the dogs have had their gallop and are penned up.  I see no reason why you can't do that too.  However, there are a number of excellent gundog trainers all over the country who could cure Max of this problem.  Where are you?

[smokingdragon]

Hi

One of my cocker spaniels is a problem with young chickens, as they are small they sometimes escape the pen and Rust retrieves them. He has learned to be hard mouthed by catching rats and the chickens are usually dead by the time he drops them.

When they are POL size he won't touch them and has no interest in them. We have learned to deal with this by trying to make the pens escape proof for the younger chicks.

Simon

[Maggie]

I totally agree that Max can be *cured* of this problem.  Our black lab, was branded a serial killer by me, after he killed six of my hens. So, every day for a week, I walked him past the hens, on a lead, and if he made a move he got a quick sting on the rump with a cane.  After that, all it took was the swish of the cane and *LEAVE!* and he soon ignored them.  That was six years ago, and Morse has gone on to become a brilliant retriever and still leaves my hens alone.  It would be such a pity to lose a lovely pet over something that's definitely curable.  Good luck!

[Old Shep]

He's only doing what his instincts are telling him to do, I would say try to both manage the situation and train him also.  Manage by fencing if poss, never let him wander unsupervised, either keep him in kennel, on a lead or being exercised/trained/playing with others in a secure area with your supervision, and be prepared to do this for the rest of his life.  He won't be unhappy with this, thats the life for most working gundogs.  I agree with getting some help in training him to "leave" the hens.  I can recommend a trainer near us who has his own hens / sheep etc who will take dogs in to train them to "leave"- this is on Yorks/Lancs border - not sure where you are.  If you want I can PM his details.

[SallyintNorth]

Leri, I am not an expert in spaniels but do have quite a bit of experience of dogs including working sheep dogs.

My collies are almost never loose unsupervised and even when they are, briefly, I am always nearby and it would not be for very many minutes. 

If it is not practical that your boy could live an active life with you and never be loose unattended (except where he simply cannot reach any hens, either by penning him or penning them, or both), then, if it were me, I think I would try the Dogs' Trust, with a hefty donation to cover their costs in retraining and finding him a suitable home where he can be accompanied when loose at all times.  They never put down a healthy dog, they have loads of very experienced dog trainers and psychologists and they are dedicated and careful at fitting the dog to the home.  Any that are not suitable for rehoming have a home for life with the Dogs' Trust. 

I had to take a friends' dog (a young Springador who had become a handful with sheep) to the Darlington branch and I was very impressed with their professionalism.  The intake psychologist took him away for an initial assessment while I filled in the paperwork, including a very comprehensive history and my opinions on what sort of home would and would not be suitable.  She returned after about 25 minutes, told me a lot about the dog that was right and a few things that I hadn't thought of myself but seemed very credible, and finished by saying that he was a complex character and she would keep him under observation for a week at least before she released him for rehoming so that she was sure she knew him properly and could advise correctly on the type of home that would be suitable for him.

I left feeling very confident that the dog would end up in a good home and that it had been the right choice to let the professionals rehome this dog who had the one problem but was otherwise an absolute beauty and would make a tremendous companion for the right someone.

I hope a good solution comes up for you and for Max - and also for your family relations and relationships. 

[feldar]

One of my collies was originally a house dog, then became a rescue case.  4 homes later he came to me. We got him when we sent our bitch collie (also a rescue case) to a friend who trains collies to work sheep. We wanted to see if we could work her. Anyway, this dog was so boisterous and out of control, that my fiend had a lot of hard work to do to train him, but train him she did. He learnt to respect everything but i remember her telling me about him chasing the hens;  then he met her cockerel one day and that cured him for ever. This was the biggest meanest cockerel i have ever seen and he meant business, all her dogs were put in with him to "teach " them don't touch chickens.
I took him on and my chooks run the garden and he keeps a very respectfull distance from them. This may not work for you but it may be worth a try

[Leri]

Thank you everyone for your advice. I have taken it all in and will look into it. The hens are very very free range! They have a hut in the paddock but will walk two sometimes three fields up from it.
Max is never out off the lead without someone with him but he's fast as lightening and although he 'always' usually comes back when called when he's going after a hen is the one time he will not :-(
Keeping on the lead till we've past the hens used to be easy whne we first had the hens, as they just hung around the paddock, and first field - but now you could come across them pretty much anywhere.
It's an awkward situation because it's my husband's parents farm, my husband lives here too - and obviously we (me, my kids & Max) came along and joined him. Max is kept in our house with my husband's dogs.
My father in law gets up in the morning, lets his dogs out then lets the hens out of the hut. So of course by the time our dogs are out the hens are already out. There obviously should be a simple solution here - but not necessarily going to find it. Part of me wishes it was one of their dogs and not Max as am sure they would find the answer much easier then :-(
I am in Conwy, North Wales - the dog listener is in Shropshire - so am willing to contact anyone to train him within about that distance or slightly more. I would love to find work for him, but have him home here as well! Poor boy :-(

Thanks again everyone - please do give me contact details of anyone suitable and I will let you know how I go on. xx

PS Someone wished me well with the personal pand relationship problems - that is all well behind me - my nrew husband is the best! And our new life perfect - or at least it was - I would hate to have to get rid of Max really - yet if I felt he could be happier somewhere lese then maybe is for the best x

[Fronhaul]

I don't know anyone in North Wales who could help but I would be surprised if Ceri at CSJK9 can't come up with someone who could help through her contacts if no one here knows anyone.  http://www.csjk9.com/

[Collie26]

what about trying to train him yourself?? What i would do is build a little pen for the he

ns to go in to trin the dog, put him on a slip lead, possibley a chain slip lead so u can have a physical contact but also sound. Walk to dog up and down past taking it slowly and as soon as he starts to get fixated on the hens give a good hard sharp yank on the lead or alternatively make contact with hand to neck very sharply to snap him out of it. The key is to not let him get to the fixation state. Just keep trying walk up and down till he doesnt look at the hens and ignores the.

Another thing is to keep yourself calm, i know its hard when the dogs not doing what you want but take the time to breath and make sure you arent projecting 'negative energy' like being tense. Dont wrap the lead around your hand becuase that causes tension, if you feel you are getting tense or furstrated take 2 minutes to relax and go again. Do it in one session until he igonres the hens and repeat till cured.

This is how i would solve the problem speaking from prior experience with a working cocker who is a lovely bitch who works all day whether beating or picking up on fur and feather. She now leaves the hens alone but is still the best working dog i know(being biased ofcourse )

Dont think your bein cruel by using either lead tugs or sharp contact to neck or hindquaters.

[shearling]

Try Housty Kennels they are in Wales - sorted out our naughty girls

[cuckoo]

You could try one of the members of the Association of Pet Behavioural Counsellors

http://www.apbc.org.uk/help/regions/wales