Author Topic: Moving sheep to a field without a CPH number (scotland) (Read 8366 times)

egglady · « **on:** August 28, 2011, 09:40:12 pm »

A friend of ours has a paddock they keep their horses on, but the grass is getting away from them and they've asked if we'll put some of our sheep on it to help graze it down.

They dont have a CPH number, nor do they need one as they only have one paddock. They live in the next village to us (about half a mile away).

Can i move my sheep there?

And if so, do I need a movement form?

Thanks

robert waddell · « **Reply #1 on:** August 28, 2011, 09:52:15 pm »

there is something about this (seasonal rent) which allows you to move animals without the accompanying paper trail
i don't do it so not that clued up on it some might say move them and don't tell anybody they would be traced back to you anyway with there tags the other thing to do is contact your trading standards or defra at Perth to put your mind at rest

Croftgary · « **Reply #2 on:** August 28, 2011, 10:24:48 pm »

I do the same with a neighbour, I had the field added onto my holding as additional grazing, it was done over the phone to Perth.

doganjo · « **Reply #3 on:** August 28, 2011, 10:48:24 pm »

That's what happened years ago when we let our farmer neighbour use some of our fields - she added it onto her number, over the phone too, even in those days.

egglady · « **Reply #4 on:** August 29, 2011, 10:17:17 am »

thanks folks, that's a weight off my mind!

Dougal · « **Reply #5 on:** August 29, 2011, 05:32:14 pm »

Not long ago (about two weeks) I was on the phone to the animal health unit in Inverurie. During that conversation they said that you cannot move sheep onto a holding that does not have a CPH number. Reason being on the movemet documentation it asks for the CPH number so the animals can be accurately traced in the event of a disease outbreak (and to keep the ministry in jobs). There also has to be a flock number attached to the CPH number before you can legally keep sheep on the holding! Can't get a flock number without the CPH number.
I suspect that obtaining the CPH number will be fairly simple (it may just have lapsed) once the CPH number is in place the flock number is just a phone call and a 24hr wait for the computer to catch up!

egglady · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2011, 07:32:03 pm »

obviously nothing is as straighforward as you'd like it to be:(

so i phone animal health in perth and they tell me that my neighbour "has to have a CPH and there is no way round it"...so i phone neighbour and tell her; she agrees to apply for CPH number and goes off to download the required form (land and business change form apparently).......

i go about my business quite happily....

neighbour phones me back to tell me that "no way" can she fill in the form as none of the sections are relevant...she doesnt have a business, she does want to change use, she isnt a smallholding, etc, etc, etc...."

so what do i do now?

Anke · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2011, 09:52:49 pm »

Why don't you fill it in for her - do you still have the copies from when you did it for your field(s)? That's what I do with my neighbours field, he just hands any paperwork to me...

He has got a flock number, but all we do is to inform DEFRA in the annual survey that he is not keeping sheep anymore, and I include his land on my return under my flock number (as the sheep stay in my ownership and responsibility)... so far nobody has phoned back and told me that is wrong...

egglady · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2011, 10:06:33 pm »

Anke, I've never done it, our place already had a CPH number when we bought it.

so does your friend have a CPH number or just a flock number?

Womble · « **Reply #9 on:** August 31, 2011, 08:22:43 am »

I agree with your friend - the land and business change form is a right royal PITA!!

However, perhaps you can assure her that it doesn't actually entail a change in itself, it's just the standard form. Like Anke says, why not download the form yourself and have a go at it? We were in a similar situation a few months ago, so I just put N/A in the boxes which weren't relevant (i.e. most of them!), and wrote a covering letter with it explaing what I ACTUALLY wanted to do, as well as a map with the relevant piece of land highlighted. Anyhow, they accepted it in Perth no problem, and this was for a very similar situation to yourself.

HTH!

feldar · « **Reply #10 on:** August 31, 2011, 08:39:09 am »

We rent ground all the time down here and some do not have CPH numbers so we add it to our cph as additional grazing and get a seperate movement book for it. I know we are in England so i don't know if these rules apply to you but DEFRA are quite happy with this system and we have 5 movement books for all our additional rented grazing.

robert waddell · « **Reply #11 on:** August 31, 2011, 12:45:29 pm »

Felder your responce is the most logical one so far (i knew there was a way round it just could not remember as i don't rent )
and in anyway if there is a problem hector the inspector reads your ear tags from your sheep on your friends field and traces them to your holding simple or is that just to simple