[deepinthewoods]

i agree profoundly with the idea of national service.
it would have done me good for sure.

[Bionic]

I have read this thread right through in the last couple of days. Some very sensible things (in my view) have been said and some perhaps not so sensible.

I just couldn't resist joining in to say that I agree about national service.  I am sure it would instill a sense of discipline, hing sadly lacking in a lot of people these days.
Sally

[waterhouse]

Don't agree about National Service, though it was before my time, unless some pretty dramatic changes in the agenda were included.  I don't think teaching kids to handle firearms will be helpful!  And many national servicemen weren't given anything productive to do

However I think the lack of meaningful penalties for this type of crime is a problem. Bailing them and then giving soft punishments does not fit the crime. Victims have rights too

[Hatty]

I strongly believe that if people put themselves outside the law then they forfiet the right to the protection of the law.

I strongly believe that at times the law can be an ass

Just out of interest are you female and do you vote? would you have that privilege if someone had not broke the law, should Emmeline Pankhurst (née Goulden; 15 July 1858 – 14 June 1928)  leader of the British suffragette movement, which helped women win the right to vote have been shot?

I dont agree with the riots in any way, but have worked in areas where the police are just not interested, yes I have had a sorn-off shotgun thrust in my face by local yobs, seen shoot outs on council estates all while going about my own business  (working for age concern). these people have nothing to look forward to no jobs no money no hope, and its easy to say get a job but try finding one. My OH was made redundant he has qualifications coming out of his ears but he can't even get a job so what chance do kids straight out of school have.

When I left school I went straight into a job (Burtons tailoring) as did everyone else at the time we had manufacturing, mining and plenty of jobs. but we are all guilty of the British demise we want cheaper buying in goods/fuel from elsewhere what ever happened to "buy British" and we are doing thee same now with the retail sector we all want cheaper so buy online, but when there are no shops left who will we blame not us!!

If you spoke to 20 different people and asked them why they were rioting my guess is you would get 20 different answers, the problem with this country is we spend far to much time a money looking after other countries, foreign aid and minorities , I don't have a problem with helping any of these causes when our own house is in order but it's time we got our priorities right

And maybe we should start with the basics like if you have kids then stay at home and look after them! give them a bit of love,, national service would be far to late as most of the kids that were involved in these riots would not be old enough, what about bringing corporal punishment back in schools???

Sorry about the Rant but till you have walked a mile in another man's shoes i.e had to live like some of these people do every day its easy to sit on your high horse ans judge

[pgkevet]

I strongly believe that at times the law can be an ass

Just out of interest are you female and do you vote? would you have that privilege if someone had not broke the law, should Emmeline Pankhurst (née Goulden; 15 July 1858 – 14 June 1928)  leader of the British suffragette movement, which helped women win the right to vote have been shot?
.....

..that's when things stared going downhill, closely followed by giving 18 yr olds a vote.

I wrote my manifesto several years ago...give all women two votes so they can cancel themselves out since they can't make a decision. Allow only one family member to have a job...solves unemployment and keeps someone at home to discipline the kids. Demand Calais back from the French and re-instate the British Empire. Ban those stupid Golden delicious apples. Take our Gold back from Germany. Ban takeaways, supermarkets and cars used for the 'school run'. Have a minimum 40mph limit in towns to teach people to look where they're going....get rid of traffic lights and roundabouts- reduces the number of cars on the roads.

[tizaala]

If you really want to know Hatty:
   I'm a 65 year old male , born 1946 with an IQ of 167, the youngest of 3 sons. My parents were means tested so that they could send my oldest brother to agricultural college. He was the one who got the new clothes and the new shoes, they were then passed down to the next son and finally to me. So don't talk down to me about deprived childhoods,We had food on the table and coal on the fire, I was doing a paper round from the age of 7 and hand milking 23 cows on the farm next door, this brought in a total of £ 1: 7/6d a week which I had to hand over to my mum to help put food on the table. I had to leave school at 15 and get a job to bring money in . So as far as poverty is concerned, I have walked more than a mile in their shoes. the difference is , I was wrapped in the warmth of a loving family that taught me that if I wanted something , then I had to earn it , not just go out and steal it.
 Respect has to be earned, not demanded.
Being brought up in the forties and fifties was no walk in the park. I can remember my mother paying the doctor with a chicken before the NHS got going.
 So don't tell me that these kids in their Nikes and designer jeans with blackberries in their pockets and carrying £50 guns are deprived ,
 The only thing they have missed out on is propper parenting , no wonder the hight of confusion is Fathers Day in Brixton.

[pgkevet]

..to be serious for a moment:

The reality of our current situation is simply one of having too much and expecting even more as a right rather than as a reward. It's to do with the pace of development fueled by selling rubbish to pay for developing even more rubbish. Little of it improves the quality of life in the sense of joy and satisfaction - instead it leads to greed.

The only things that really matter are health and enough food to avoid hunger and enough shelter to avoid the cold. The rest is just 'stuff' - baggage that you don't need and just leads to envy. Why do we hanker for a pastoral existence? It's hard work, it's regressive, it doesn't allow for possessing more than essentials. Indeed it's a reaction and a desire to leave that world of excess and get back to that simpler philosophy.

[deepinthewoods]

''The only thing they have missed out on is proper parenting''

the 'only' thing??? surely thats the main thing?

[Womble]

On a less serious note, did anybody else catch this quote from the BBC news website?

Libyan foreign ministry spokesman Khalid Ka'im has called on world governments to take action over the unrest in the UK. David Cameron has lost legitimacy and "must go", Libya's official news agency Jana reports. Libya "demands that the international community not stand with arms folded in the face of this gross aggression against the rights of the British people, who are demanding its right to rule its country", the report said.

 

[MikeM]

is that real? I hope so, it's hilarious. I never knew gadhaffi had a sense of humour. 

[Rosemary]

Emmeline Pankhurst (née Goulden; 15 July 1858 – 14 June 1928)  leader of the British suffragette movement

I share a birthday with Emmeline - only the date, not the year 

Sorry, off topic 

[knightquest]

I say again, these people were NOT rioting. Just thieving.

Poorness was not an issue. Bad parenting WAS.

Ian

[Hatty]

If you really want to know Hatty:
   I'm a 65 year old male , born 1946 with an IQ of 167, the youngest of 3 sons. My parents were means tested so that they could send my oldest brother to agricultural college. He was the one who got the new clothes and the new shoes, they were then passed down to the next son and finally to me. So don't talk down to me about deprived childhoods,We had food on the table and coal on the fire, I was doing a paper round from the age of 7 and hand milking 23 cows on the farm next door, this brought in a total of £ 1: 7/6d a week which I had to hand over to my mum to help put food on the table. I had to leave school at 15 and get a job to bring money in . So as far as poverty is concerned, I have walked more than a mile in their shoes. the difference is , I was wrapped in the warmth of a loving family that taught me that if I wanted something , then I had to earn it , not just go out and steal it.
 Respect has to be earned, not demanded.
Being brought up in the forties and fifties was no walk in the park. I can remember my mother paying the doctor with a chicken before the NHS got going.
 So don't tell me that these kids in their Nikes and designer jeans with blackberries in their pockets and carrying £50 guns are deprived ,
 The only thing they have missed out on is propper parenting , no wonder the hight of confusion is Fathers Day in Brixton.

all that experience and still small minded  I hardly mentioned childhood it was the law, but lucky you you had a family that cared even though money was tight more than most of these kids have!!

[waterhouse]

A riot is a whisker away from a boisterous crowd.

My boy, out policing in  one of the less affected areas, said that there were loads of dodgy kids in town waiting for something to kick-off.  It didnt.

[northfifeduckling]

same here. 3 boys tried to kick off a facebook campaign in Dundee and were caught straight off.