[princesspiggy]

can anyone recommend someone in aberdeenshire/grampian to construct an outdoor menage?
it has to be decent enough to hire out all year round but not cost the entire earth?
thanx

[Lesworth]

Why not use several contractors for each key stage and manage it yourself rather than pay a fortune to a 'professional'? I used a groundworks company (they typically dig foundations, drains and perform heavy landscaping) to dig out the topsoil and excavate a herringbone drainpattern. They can also advise on positioning of the Manege and drainage issues. This is the most important stage as you intend to use it year round. I also had them spread the topsoil and level it on my land which saved removal costs.

The next stage is putting the drains in and any competent builder can do this (I did my own and I am an office worker!). Its not rocket science and all the information I needed was found on the internet. I even ordered the materials on ebay in most cases. The fence can be erected by a lanscaper / fencer and the hardcore and sand surface can be spread by the same grounworks company with their machines. The membrane can be laid by anyone.

My Manege came in at approx £18k with me project managing, ordering materials and doing some of the work (drains and membranes) in my spare time, the odd day off and one week off when the hardcore and sand rubber surface was delivered and laid. Its built to the recommended standards and is usable through the winter.

[princesspiggy]

does it matter if the digger isnt on caterpillar treads? i know exactly how i want it - to the point if obsession! but many contractors up here have such differing prices and views on what to do.
im all for putting a membrane down (and sewing it in place) but some contractors say there is no need, then some surface companies say they are no longer required.
im hoping to use sand then top up with shredded tyres in a few years time. though as kids, we used a woodchip surface and that was fine. the field is very open in winter so i expect to lose some sand in the gales!

[lachlanandmarcus]

I would look at it this way. If the people saying you dont need a membrane are wrong, will they pay for the whole lot to be dug up, membrane put in and replaced?

hmm thought not.It costs (relatively!!!) little to put it in at the start but almost impossible to do so later.

I cant quite work out how they would think a surface with no membrane would stop the surface migrating down and the weeds migrating up?

You might need something to stop all that expensive (silica one hopes) sand floating away on the wind, even at the outset. If that's not doable would you be better going for woodchip temporarily and in a couple of years getting the de luxe surface with the rubber to weigh it down....?

[robert waddell]

quite surprising this one         the first hurdle is your rates issue once the council find out especially when you are hiring it out
there are a lot of contractors out there  and as you say such a variance in costs       the cheap ones have they got insurance have they done this before are they prepared to take you to previous happy customers
i would shy away from getting every man and his dog in to do the work a bit at a time
also the cost they are not cheap
if you goggle greenwells arenas (Brian harper) and contact them they might travel to your area     there is only one way to do an arena and that is the correct way
i fail to see the point of digging down to build it back up again
type of machine  that is down to the one supplying it  a 3c and mini diggers are just farting about costing you money but making money for them Brian uses a 13 ton excavator  far quicker and better at the end of the day it is your money spend it wisely

[princesspiggy]

I cant quite work out how they would think a surface with no membrane would stop the surface migrating down and the weeds migrating up?

i was reading a horsey article about school construction saying something in the lines of modern surfaces dont require the old fashioned membranes so im presuming they must have meant rubber mixes? i know some people use a membrane at bottom, then another on top of the highest layer of stones. i had one contractor that quoted a very cheap price but said horses would do the splits if i used any liner. hhmm 
i am definitely going to see past customers schools cos its a big investment, and expensive to correct if its done badly.

        the first hurdle is your rates issue once the council find out especially when you are hiring it out

i have full planning permission already and i dont think hiring it will drawing such an income that itl attract high rates (indoor schools are different as they are seen as buildings)

i have the use of a digger at reasonably price (with a driver luckily! LOL) but thought maybe ud need caterpillar treads to ensure a smooth finish of the foundations?

i will try greenwells, thanku 

[Lesworth]

I used only three contractors. First the groundowrks experts to help me with site and drainage. Next a fencer to put up the fence gate and barge boards and lastly a company that supplied a large (165ton I think) digger on caterpiller treads and a six ton dumper to help me move and level the base a finsh surfaces. Assuming you have the time to manage this its a doddle and is not rocket science.

I agree there is only one way to do this and there are NO shortcuts. Drains are the most importnat part of the whole thing and you need someone to advise on soil etc to see how the drains should work, how deep, etc. This is why it makes sense to have a groundworks company performing the initial excavation for you.

Membranes are mandatory in my opinion - its common sense really and the cost of the membrane is very very small in the grand scheme of things. I used silica sand topped with recycled rubber. The sand was the most expensive single aspect and came in at £7000 (thats why spending a few hundred on membrane is a no brainer!). The rubber was £1500 which again is a (relatively) small price to pay for helping to stabilise that very precious Silica sand.

I'm happy to provide a detailed breakdown of materials and costs to anyone interested (please PM me).

[princesspiggy]

id be interested in a price breakdown, thanx
is silicia sand finer or just less abrasive?
we were brought  up with woodchip schools so i wouldnt mind that but sand appears the most popular around here.
maybe im more eccentric ( ) as im all for herringbone drainage but my potential contractors seem more laid back and think 3 or 4 pipes
running across the short side will be ample. i would hate to have a school that was too boggy. how many tonnes of sand would a 20x40 require?
i waiting for some site visits and quotes ( ) but very excited 

[OhLaLa]

We are midway through constructing our Manage so this is something I've been researching.

Riding Surfaces: Woodchip and Rubber Chip are considered fire hazards and already banned in much of the EU, UK will prob follow suit so be careful, taking that lot up and replacing it would be no fun. Silica Sand from the South West of the UK (a by product of china clay mining in Devon/Cornwall) is another no no - dust in the summer, sticky in the winter (too much kaolin left in).

Membranes - some constructors say not necessary, others put down one (the most popular option), even two.

I've got a few websites bookmarked which have good info, below are two pages from one of them:

http://www.heritage-house.org/buildmanege.html

http://www.heritage-house.org/manege.html

Let us know how you get on, would love to see your progress!

 

PS: I've also read membranes need replacing every 4 / 5 years  !!

[robert waddell]

i do hope anyone contemplating an arena takes the time to read oh la la  posting    the only thing he has forgot is happy snaps and get a written statement on what works and matterials are going to be used    (it is easier to produce photos than have somebody waffling on about what they did or did not do when in court getting your money back)
when arenas first started  there was big money to be made  and have seen the pitfalls described drainage/building rubble/no membrane woodchip surfaces etc         now every man and his dog are constructing them
i never did an arena simply because as described there is to much money involved to do it correctly  and that is one thing the horse fraternity hold onto  trying to tell them the cheap option would not work they would have none of it always saying they knew somebody that just had one constructed for half the cost
the guy from heritage house has detailed it out  CUT CORNERS AT YOUR PERIL  you will also need flood lights to get the best out of your arena
yes a well constructed arena adds value  but a poor one devalues your property and can injure your horse or worse somebody Else's horse

[princesspiggy]

thanku guys, shopping for arenas is much more fun than shoppin for shoes...unless theyre horseshoes...lol

[Lesworth]

Silica sand granules are shaped to tessellate so that the surface compacts. My Manege was finished
 last October and we have has no dust issues so far this summer - its in an open area on the tope of a hill that is exposed to the south westerly winds as well.
Also please dont listen to comments about not needing extensive drains - you must use a herringbone pattern or similar - this is the most importnat part of the build and is what I spent most time working on. In fact it breaks my heart that no-one ever sees the work of enginieering brilliance that is now busried under tons and tons fo stone and sand! Just think how much water falls on a surface area of 800m2 over several days of prolonged rain! You need to get thast water away from the Menage as quickly as possible. You must use a membrane as well to keep the surfaces sperate and stop the sane from being washed down through the stone layer and into the drains. I'll echo Robert Waddell: Do Not Cut Corners!!!!

[OhLaLa]

Herringbone drainage and membrane are both being installed in our Manage, luckily the site is adjacent to a ditch so the runaway pipe feeds directly into that.

If anyone is interested, I'll maybe in due course, put up a post with progress photos and info on how we did it  ??

In the meantime guys, would love to see your progress/finished item photos.

[Lesworth]

You're lucky then! I made the mistake of having a 3 x 4 x 5 metre soakaway against the recommendation of the groundworks poeple. I have clay soil and so the water just didnt drain away when it rained shortly after it was dug. I ended up having it filled in and digging a 100 metre trench and laying lad drain to my dearest ditch

Great idea on progress updates etc. I took lots of photos of my progress because I wanted to show that it was built to the correct standards just in case we ever had to seel up. I'll post some key photo's and also a breakdown of the materials and cost - hope its of help to someone.

[egglady]

Brian Harper (greenwells) did our arena.....