[James1982]

Hi guys,
I've been thinking of starting a micro-business rearing weaners to sell as meat products. What I would like to do is purchase a few acres of woodland to establish a forest garden with a heavy emphasis upon pig fodder crops. I would like to employ someone to feed and check the pigs twice a day. My current aim is for a cost neutral enterprise where I gain high quality pig products without the ethical guilt from supermarket meat.

If I had someone (or more likely two people sharing the job) working for half an hour morning and early eve for £7.00 an hour 7 days a week for 4 months (the length of time it takes to get a weaner to killing weight) I would need around 8 pigs to break even (if I put one aside for my belly). The remainder of the year the land would be turned over to growing food for the pigs (which would be done by myself) to lower the cost of feed. Food grown would be dried, milled and stored on site. I am aware a licence is required for pig food mixing.

Is this an overly ambitious plan? Your thoughts and questions would be appreciated.

My main concerns are security and food. I aim to buy the woodland (or agricultural land) in Kent, but not close to where I live. Would it be safe to have pigs within driving distance? I'm worried they would be taken by thieves, or they might escape (although I certainly would plan for measures against that). To reduce costs on pig feed I hope to grow as much as I can on site, using the permaculture plan of tiered growing with trees/climbers/ground level plants all contributing. I'm thinking of apple trees, hazel trees, broad beans, turnips/sugar beet/ fodder beet, kales, chard, etc. Is it possible to create a cocktail of non-cereal crops equal to the nutritional value in pig nuts? Or is it simply a matter of feeding pigs a greater quantity to achieve the same nutritional value?

Thanks

[Collie26]

HI there welcome,

Firstly do you have a ready market for the 8 pigs you are going to raise??

Secondly are you just going to buy them in or have a breeding sow?


Personally I think that you could provide some of the fodder needed but they may still need growers to get the to grow quick enough for slaughter.

We have downsized from having 4 breeding sows with around 6-8 litters a year BUT we never really had a market for them other than at christmas!

This is what you need to think about is there a market for your product?? And are you EVER going to make money on a small scale with pigs??? From our experience sometimes but mostly NO!

I don't see a problem with keeping pigs away from your house, but how far is driving distance???

Also as long as you have good enough fencing all should be fine, but ALWAYS use ELECTRIC FENCING as its the only thing that works with pigs other times they'll just lean and push it over.

But have fun!!!

[Hilarysmum]

Have you worked out your costs ?  Do you have one or two people in mind.  How reliable are they?  Because at the end of the day its a huge committment.  How will you cover sickness, holidays, will they want double time for working BH, assuming they will work.  

As above all the points made by Collie 26.  Have your costings included all the unexpected.  Ie.  what if your crop fails?  Vet bills, or the worst of all the loss of one or more of the piglets, either from theft or death.  If the pigs are not close to your home, you have the extra costs of fuel to and from, and the risk of theft.  If they are only being checked only twice a day (assuming the reliability of your workers) it could be some time before you are aware of a sick pig, or an escaped pig.

On paper it all sounds great, may I respectfully suggest you get some hands on experience with a smallholder, to see the pitfalls as well as the bonuses of pig keeping.  Personally I think paying someone else to rear your pigs takes away the whoe point, as for me and I think for virtually everyone else on this site the pleasure of keeping the pigs is at least as important as the profit made.  

Even were you able to rear your pigs totally on home grown food, taking into account the costs of same, assuming you have a tractor, milling etc. plus the costs of your employees, I dont see how you can even begin to break even.  I would be really intereted in your costings.

I wish you the very best of luck should you decide to go ahead, but think you would be financially much better off paying someone who already raises pigs  in an ecologically sound way, to grow one for you to slaughter.

[SallyintNorth]

Can you find sources of vegetable and protein locally, eg, supermarket 'past best' veg and bread, and cheesemaker's whey, to get you close to a balanced ration which you then augment with the lovely things you will grow for them?  Then you may only need a little bit of extra cereal to finish them off. 

If you can do it they will taste fabulous!

Things I have observed and been told include:

• it's very very hard to finish pigs outdoors without cereal / cake - so much so that even the organic Soil Association will allow producers to finish indoors especially in the colder months and in colder, wetter locations (Kent is obviously one of the best places in Britain to try the outdoor finishing from that point of view!)
• a hungry pig, a bored pig - these are escaping pigs, as they rootle widely looking for food and entertainment, lifting fences and shorting electrics in so doing.  Your proposal sounds idyllic but, as others have said, not being nearby and having only twice-daily checks does leave loooong periods when they could be getting free and heading for Malmesbury 

I wish you luck if you do decide to go ahead - please let us know how you get on!

[hughesy]

If it was that easy everyone would be doing it. I think the harsh realities of business and keeping livestock will be round to have a word with you before you know it.

[Dundonald hens]

James, James, James I to have that vison that you have and have been researching what to grow, when to plant ,when to let them eat it etc and would probaly be at the point where I am still stuck for January and febaury for feeding for them with out storing something that I have growen which again I am looking into.
I had asked the same questions a few days back and got a lot of bah humbug from people here and a few jumping to the conclusion that i only wanted cheap meat which is not the case i want cheap sustanable meat.
I have been looking at what the different types of feed provide the pigs with and what i can grow to give them the same I have heard mad ideas that you would need to feed them 100's pf pounds of feed instead of a few pounds of modern feeds which I have asked farmers,vets and feedmerchants about and they all,  agred with me that good selective feeding can easily substitute modern milled feeds i have also been looking at what the pigs actualy need to produce lots of meat but not nesecary lots of fat as I am sure you will agree some of the pork these days has a lot of fat.
I have been working it out that it would take quite a lot of time and effort but would be relativly easy with some hard work.
I would love to share ideas with you and maybe we could break into the pig industry with home grown,home fed pigs with the smallest carbon trotters in the country !!!

[welshlass181]

I'm no expert by any means and i am new to pig keeping.  I keep Kunes and Kune crosses.  My pigs are kept 3-4 miles away from my house and they are reared for meat.  We've never had any trouble with ours as they are very wary of strangers.  If me or my husband go in there we get mobbed lol.  We only raise them for the use by my family and they get slaughtered by a registered business.  I feed my boars (4 in a pen as 1 is a stud and 3 just been castrated) everyday on hard feed as they have limited grazing.  They get a mixture of pig nuts, fruit/veg and a bucket of sugarbeat and pig meal.  They also have roughage being hay or haylage whatever i have.  My sows/gilts (over 20 of the little buggers) only get a minimum hard feed everyday as they have grass and a whole field to root they also have unlimited roughage.  I feed all of them on a whole bucket of whole sugarbeat and pig nuts and a scoop full of rolled beans that i throw around the field to give them something to do ..... they root and find all the nuts.  My females are a nice healthy weight (except the newest one who was VERY fat coming in but she is dropping weight) and the boars came to me a bit chubby so they've all been on a limited diet but are coming nice. 

I recently took 6 Kune crosses in to slaughter and there was minimal fat on them.  The meat was awesome (i don't like roast pork so have to wait for BBQ weather) i had some good reports back from the ppl who ate it.

[robert waddell]

so that is two people with the same idea  almost at the two ends of Britain (at least weather wise) James you will have an easier time in Kent the weather is warmer for longer and pigs grow quicker with heat and less food than pigs that are in a wet and colder environment
it is interesting that everbody is blinkered by killing there pig at six months and not by weight     once they get to 50-60 kilos they can put on 7-10 kilos per week    fed on sow rolls and some veg    but that wont interest either of you     the majority of pig keepers don't have vast acerages to sow and harvest either cereals root crops or whatever   James why pay others to look after you pigs     i would suspect your plan once set in motion   would require a house on the land eliminating the security risk and traveling to the site        for both of you modern feed either pig  fowl or cattle contains soya meal (the protein content of feed)  this is imported
dundonald i suspect you are in ayrshire (not exactly the other end of the country but a good distance) you should contact SAC and they will tell you exact the daily needs of pigs for growth and the protein content of what feed you are planning on growing they are the experts on animal nutrition rather than ask on a public forum and get ridiculed for your ideas
both of you good luck in searching for the holly grail  IMHO the only way to achieve this is if somebody else pays for feeding your pigs
now i hope both of you like a challenge      go out and prove us all wrong and show us where we are going wrong

[benkt]

Hi James,

Have you considered a 'Community Supported Agriculture' (CSA) route for your little business?

We ran a 'pig club' last year where six families got together to keep three pigs, each taking a half at the end of the year. Families payed a bit upfront to buy the weaners (£50 IIRC) and then a small monthly subscription which covered the feed bill. The field they were in was right by my house, but the other families brought bits and pieces of food from their gardens/allotments regularly and provided holiday cover over the summer when we wanted to get away.

We could have sold our pigs five times over, which led to us buying a six acre farm that we are running on a community basis for twenty families this year. This model has a few benefits - easier cashflow, no risk of being left with unsold pork at the end, and with your numbers, you could get each member to feed once a week and not have to pay anyone.

For our community farm, we advertised for members in a couple of village newsletters and filled our places within a week and have a big waiting list aswell. Our members have to agree to come and spend an afternoon working at the farm at least once a month, but most are here far more than that. This is in addition to paying a monthly sub.

It only works if you like people(!) and are happy to teach inexperienced folk what to do but I find the workdays are the highlight of my week.

Ben

[Padge]

benkt......what a heartening post

It's the sort of idealistic notion advocated on tv lifestyle programmes......is fabulous to read of someone testing the water succeeding enough to expand and then hearing it's a real success

[smallholder in the city]

The soil association has a leaflet all about small scale community pig keeping
Here's the link: http://www.soilassociation.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=wHA6qvWcNLU=&tabid=204

[James1982]

Thanks for all the feedback  ,
There's loads of great ideas from you guys, I'm particularly interested in the idea of a Community Supported Agriculture project. I'd certainly like to know more about how to set one up, I know that a group project is far stronger than an individual. I would still go along the lines of using a sustainable approach to pig rearing, as I believe it is possible (just like Dundonald hens). But obviously I would start out with a dual system of pig nuts and home grown fodder, hopefully making a transition over time. And with that, I would also start with having weaners only before committing to a breeding sow.

The big question is whether there is a market for the meat. What about the idea of a sausage van providing high quality fast food? The margin is better than selling sausages in packs and the meat can be put in frozen storage until it is used (i.e. sold). I've looked into the business side of getting a sausage/burger van and it looks feasible. There are certain hoops to jump through but nothing impossible. Benkt has a very interesting story about being able to sell the pigs in his pig club easily, it certainly seems it's not what you know but who you know. Perhaps a locally well known pig club selling quality food is the way forward.

As with welshlass 181 I envisage the piggies to be within 10-15min drive away, with secure electric fencing to keep the swines in (no pun intended). Would buying some land be the best option or would renting land be better for a new venture like this? Is renting an option that a farmer would be interested in?

Thanks

[Collie26]

FARMERS well they might not be interested in renting if its good grazing land as pigs will just rip it to shredds.

Business wise, market wise i believe it all depends on where you are in the counrty, for example we are in county durham but find it really difficult to shift rare breed anything whether its meat or livestock.

And of course its time of year, christmas we could sell what we have 5 times over.

[SallyintNorth]

I cherish the idea that one day I will persuade farmers that when they're planning to plough it's a GREAT idea to put pigs in first.   I'm starting with BH - watch this space...

i believe it all depends on where you are in the counrty, for example we are in county durham but find it really difficult to shift rare breed anything whether its meat or livestock.

You'll never guess where I had to go to to get my OSB gilts! 

[benkt]

Re: setting up a CSA, the soil association have some helpful advice, case studies etc on their website

http://www.soilassociation.org/Takeaction/Getinvolvedlocally/Communitysupportedagriculture/tabid/201/Default.aspx

and do run some (free) courses for getting started advice with the business/legal bits.

Also see 'Making local food work': http://www.makinglocalfoodwork.co.uk/ which has masses of advice, more training etc.