[Tamsaddle]

The Saddleback's belly is dropping closer to the ground each day and with any luck we should have our second litter within 2 or 3 days.   Being black eared pigs I am dreading the thought of having to cut chunks out of their ears within a few days of birth, and have read many of the earlier posts in which many of you have declared ear notching to be barbaric.  As we are not planning to show any of our pigs, it would seem to me to be less cruel to go for the alternative of a double plastic ear tag which it seems the BPA would (reluctantly?) accept.    It would be very interesting to hear from anyone who has experience of doing notching.  Does it cause a lot of pain and bleeding - for some number combinations 3 or 4 notches would be required, ouch, and how does one avoid getting killed by a frantic sow watching and listening to you mutilating her babies?    If the piglet is screaming and fighting too, is it difficult to get the notches in the right place?    What is the best age to do notching on the piglets?

The Tamworth babies, now weighing a staggering 5 kgs each and 16 days old have the option of either plastic tags or tattoo numbers.   Given a choice, are plastic ear tags less painful and difficult to get in than sticking pins and ink through the ear with the tattoo pliers?    Or is tattooing as straightforward and easy as doing slap marks which is all we needed to use in the previous two years with our unregistered pigs going to slaughter.    Would appreciate your advice  -  Tamsaddle     

[lill]

Hi Tamsdale,
When we did notch our Hampshire's they were done around 5-6 weeks of age , not too small at this age and the ear is grown a little.
It does cause a lot of bleeding if you take out too much, (we only put the notch pliers in the ear a little bit so it's just a wee knick) The tips of the ears don't bleed but the bottom next to the head bleeds if too much is taken out.
When notching your piglets (if you decide to do it) PLEASE put the sow out of the pen and work ONLY with the piglets in the pen. We NEVER work with the piglets when mum is in the same pens.  Always remember YOUR safety is paramount.
You need 2 people to help, 1 to lift the piglets and hold the face by the snout and the other to do the notching. Our number of notching ranges from 2 to 7 (poor wee begger with the 7 notches)
If you can't get your head round the notch system, draw a pig head, or 10 or what ever numbers you need, write the number required and send it to an experienced breeder. Richard Lutwyche will know how to read your numbers and he can then mark the numbers on the paper. I had to send my piggy drawing to Guy Kiddy for confirmation of correct notching positions.
Plastic tags are definitely easier and less painful, no they are not difficult to put in, but you must remember not to put the tags on the cartilage, put the tags between them.
My opinion of tattooing is very similar to that of slap marking.
Hope this helps.
Lillian

[supplies for smallholders]

Hi,

As above, Ear notching can, and does, cause a lot of bleeding - but having said that it does not seem to bother the weaners too much, but if you prefer, and with the BPA's agreement, go for plastic tags.

Ear Tattooing and Slapmarking are my preferred method of identification - its permanent, it cannot get snagged or pulled out, and in my view it is better than using tags.

Thanks

[Tamsaddle]

Thanks for your replies.   Still debating what to do.   The 'Limp Piglet' thread seems to have turned into a discussion about notching as well - all useful and informative. 

[Tudful Tamworths]

With notching or tattooing I would really recommend getting someone experienced to show you how it is done first time round - and ideally to be there to help you. The piglets MUST be restrained when it is being done and, as said above, the sow must be well out of the way.

Neither form of ID is easy - if you cut the notches in the wrong place you're buggered, as you can't undo it. Tattooing is very messy and can be fiddly because you're handling tiny little letters and numbers and you're swapping the numbers for each piglet - all with sticky, inky hands. You have to make sure you work the ink well into the holes in order for the tattoo to work. It doesn't always work, so they are NOT always permanent.  Both processes require a minimum of two people, and maybe even three in the case of tattooing - one to hold, one to swap characters, and one to do the crunching with the pliers.

I would say that if you're worried about both processes and don't intend showing, you're better off going for double tagging. You'll have to write to the BPA to inform them that's what you're planning to do. Personally, I think the sooner we get a microchip system the better!

Good luck with it all
Liz

[Berkshire Boy]

Hi Liz,
micro chips,hadn't thought of that. Is it something thats in the pipe line?
It would certainly be a better system and no animal welfare issues.
Steve.

[Fowgill Farm]

I heard micro chipping will never happen for pigs because the microchips will disappear into the pigs fat and be unreadable but surely if they were microchipped say in the fleshy part of the ear this wouldn't be a problem. I hate notching, tattooing etc its barbaric, i tag which at least is one sharp shock and then its over and done with and we have very few problems.
Mandy 

[Mr Pig]

The problem with microchips is that they migrate around the body which is unacceptable to the food industry which has far more lobbying power in places that matter than the pedigree pig industry. The same thing happens with dogs but in the west we don't eat them so it isn't a problem. Microchips in an ear tag sounds good but all ear tags are susceptible to being torn out esp in outdoor pigs which is why purists within the BPA don't like the double tagging option. The recent cases where cattle were retagged to avoid the best examples being sent to slaughter under TB rules show just how easy it would be for tagged pigs to have their identity changed. BPA should be devoting much more time and effort to finding an alternative, fool proof solution to pigs' identity.

[supplies for smallholders]

Hi,

Work IS underway in the commercial world to produce a microchip that is traceable within a carcass (so it can be removed) Ill keep you posted as I hear more.

Thanks

[Beewyched]

Hi,

Work IS underway in the commercial world to produce a microchip that is traceable within a carcass (so it can be removed) Ill keep you posted as I hear more.

Thanks

That's great news - it may help to repel would-be rustlers too if they know a herd is chipped. 

[Tudful Tamworths]

Hi,

Work IS underway in the commercial world to produce a microchip that is traceable within a carcass (so it can be removed) Ill keep you posted as I hear more.

Thanks

Yes, I was aware of this, which was why I alluded to it earlier. It may cost us more if a reliable system was approved, but it would avoid a lot of hassle, fraud, and confusion.

[Beewyched]

And pain to the animals too!

The "Dog world" is certainly moving along with micro-chipping over the past few years our "daddy" dog was hip-scored about 3 years ago & had been chipped as a puppy, but the number was never put on his x-rays.  Now, his son is going for his hip-score the vet here checked that he had already been chipped as apparently it has to go on the x-rays & forms.

Oh & it hasn't affected the price either  

[Hilarysmum]

Nothing against the idea BUT only if the price of hand readers comes down a heck of a lot.

I dont think it would deter pig thieves, if they are prepared to steal the pigs, they would have in place a discreet butcher to do the deed.