[fleeced]

Hi, Im new to the forum, although been lurking for a while so I hope Ive put this in the right section...!

I currently have some ewes but am looking to add some rare breeds to my flock. I have my heart set on Hill Radnor's, have sampled their fleece, been to meet a few etc and they are exactly what Im looking for. Now, the problem is this, I live in Yorkshire and the Radnor's will be purchased in Wales, and I dont have a trailer or a towing vehicle (or any hope of borrowing one from friends). Are there transport companies that would move a few sheep in the same way there are for horses? Sorry if this is a bit rambling, basically, any ideas how to get sheep from Wales to Yorkshire?

Thanks in advance

[SallyintNorth]

I think you need to try to find someone doing the return journey, or part of it, so glad of a load in the other direction.

What livestock gets exported from Yorkshire to Wales?  Actually, Welsh Country Foods (now part of Vion) and Dunbia both have abattoirs in Wales, and are bound to pick up near you.  But not sure whether they'd already have return loads they routinely do and if not, whether they'd countenance picking up just a few sheep for you.  Can't hurt to ask, though?

Somewhen I am hoping to get some Exmoor Horn ewes, probably from Exmoor.  Luckily I do know of a Devon family who do occasionally buy Galloway cattle and Beltex sheep up here and one of my neighbours arranges the transport for them, so I may be able to hitch-hike some sheep on the otherwise empty journey.

[Hopewell]

I've noticed that there is someone advertising animal transport on the British Goat Society website, although I've not used them. www.allgoats.org.uk/for_sale.htm

[fleeced]

Ooo thanks, a couple of good ideas all ready. I'll investigate cost etc, It would really be easier in the long run if I got a small trailer, but I suspect Id have to get a new car for that.

[fleeced]

I have a VW beetle 1.6....hardly a practical smallholders car, but you can fit a lot of horse feed in it, plus I discovered this week that a 5ft rabbit ark goes in it...just! My only concern about getting a tow bar on it, is how low the back of the car is, would this hamper towing a trailer?...I agree Id prefer to be self reliant, plus eventually I would like to do some showing, so a trailer would be a better choice longer term!

[fleeced]

Thats so helpful, thanks! I will check with the manual. I presume I then find a trailer thats not heavier than the limit weight for my car? (sorry stupid question Im sure, but Ive never towed before, we had a horsebox for the horses so didnt need to think about towbars etc!)

[daddymatty82]

also how long you been driving? do you need to take a test for trailer? i know i can tow up to 750kg but anything more i need a trailer licence for.

[fleeced]

also how long you been driving? do you need to take a test for trailer? i know i can tow up to 750kg but anything more i need a trailer licence for.

10 years,  arent you allowed maximum weight of car and trailer up to 3.5 tonnes? (I could have dreamt that up though...)..Goes off to add 'trailer test' to list of things to investigate!

Thanks Worzel Gummidge, I checked the manual you were spot on with the weights, I hope something like the Ifor P6 would work for my needs, although I just looked at the max weight is 1400kg, but I think that was the braked trailer... Its all a bit confusing!  

[waterhouse]

From the horse's mouth "All drivers who passed a car test before 1 January 1997 retain their existing entitlement to tow trailers until their licence expires. This means they are generally entitled to drive a vehicle and trailer combination up to 8.25 tonnes MAM. They also have entitlement to drive a minibus with a trailer over 750kgs MAM."

and the other stuf is at http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_10013073

Ifor Williams biggest horse trailer (only ever seen one, and at a trade show) towed by a Range Rover could exceed 4.25 tonnes MAM or gross train weight, otherwise it's quite hard to get into trouble.  Unless:

1. You're doing it as a commercial business, in which case all the rules are much tougher
2. You move livestock as part of an "economic activity" when there is a limit of 50km beyond which you need to have passed another test http://www.defra.gov.uk/publications/files/pb12544f-transport-sheep.pdf

Does my head in

[PDO_Lamb]

Try the Hill Radnor Flock book Society http://www.hillradnor.co.uk .
Maybe one of their members who has a stock trailer and has passed the short journey (<8hrs) proficiency test would enjoy a trip to Yorkshire. Unless you are planning to invest in a tow bar and one of the smaller sizes of stock trailer it would be cheaper to pay the vendor to deliver. Ifor Williams P6e or P7e are the unbraked ones that will keep you under the 750kg restriction.
Remember that each movement of a batch of animals must be accompanied by a movement certificate showing: -
•   Time of loading & code number of the departure holding
•   The driver’s details
•   Time of unloading & code number of the receiving holding
A copy of which then has to be sent to a central database where they can check that you have obeyed the rules.
If you decide to invest in your own transport and plan to go to shows more than 50 km from home you will need to pass the Transport of animals – Short Journey – Sheep proficiency test.

[SallyintNorth]

Ifor Williams biggest horse trailer (only ever seen one, and at a trade show) towed by a Range Rover could exceed 4.25 tonnes MAM or gross train weight, otherwise it's quite hard to get into trouble.  

You are a fount of useful info, waterhouse!

Now, someone told me that there are now regs about the gross weight of the towed part not being more than the gross weight of the towing part.  Is that right?  All these 4x4s are rated capable of pulling up to 3T or 3.5T but don't weigh much more than 1.5T ...

[fleeced]

Try the Hill Radnor Flock book Society http://www.hillradnor.co.uk .
Maybe one of their members who has a stock trailer and has passed the short journey (<8hrs) proficiency test would enjoy a trip to Yorkshire. Unless you are planning to invest in a tow bar and one of the smaller sizes of stock trailer it would be cheaper to pay the vendor to deliver. Ifor Williams P6e or P7e are the unbraked ones that will keep you under the 750kg restriction.
Remember that each movement of a batch of animals must be accompanied by a movement certificate showing: -
•   Time of loading & code number of the departure holding
•   The driver’s details
•   Time of unloading & code number of the receiving holding
A copy of which then has to be sent to a central database where they can check that you have obeyed the rules.
If you decide to invest in your own transport and plan to go to shows more than 50 km from home you will need to pass the Transport of animals – Short Journey – Sheep proficiency test.

Yes ive been in touch with the breed society, I plan to buy at the breed sale, so will need some transport to get them back. I think the P6e or P7e look like a good choice, I need to go and investigate it all a bit further I think, plenty of time though, breed sales not until September!

[PDO_Lamb]

I don’t know if a vehicle with a kerb side weight (unloaded with a full tank of fuel) of around 1500kg would have maximum permitted towing weight as high as 3500kg. Many 4x4s and pickups have a maximum permissible towing weight of 2500kg
The permitted maximum weights for loading vehicles including what weight they can tow is set out in the handbook and is published on manufacturers websites. The numbers might also be printed on a plate under the bonnet.  Trailers should have a plate showing the unloaded weight and the maximum permissible loaded weight.  If borrowing a trailer to tow behind your car you would have to look up the maximum permissible weight it can tow and then get the calculator out to add up the weight of the trailer and the sheep. Don’t forget that wet full fleeced sheep weigh much more than you might think.

[VSS]

I would suggest talking to someone with sheep to sell and asking them to deliver if you cover the cost.

In the longer term, you will probably need a small trailer.

[waterhouse]

This is a difficult area cos the law seems to have been built by different people at different times who didn't talk to each other.

If you tow a caravan then there is guidance (which I think came from the Caravan Club originally) that the brute should't exceed 85% of the tow car.  But it's only guidance so if you're towing a really hench double axle beast with an swb land rover you'd have a case for being over 85%.  But if the fire brigade are cutting you out of the wreckage I'd hire a lawyer fast.  Caravans (speaking as a non-owner) seem to be right b'stards to tow particularly in side winds, and we've all seen them snaking or the consequences of actually overtaking its owner.  Most Ifor Williams trailers are hewn from iron ingots and behave beautifully.

The licensing laws allow for the trailer weight to exceed the tow vehicle's weight if you have the +E on your licence.  B+E is thus car plus trailer and is grandfathered for the older of us while the kids have to pass another practical.  So in real life this means that a Land rover 90 which weighs 1.7 tonnes at the kerb can pull 3.5t of load. So can the fattest Range Rover which weighs a whole tonne more.