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Author Topic: FOXES !!  (Read 12854 times)

Hilarysmum

  • Joined Oct 2007
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2011, 07:45:14 am »

Nope, just find most horsey types arrogant (around here anyway) I own two shetlands myself but its hard looking down your nose at people when you are sitting on them :)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Frieslandfilly

  • Joined Apr 2009
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2011, 03:58:58 pm »
I have just lost 12 hens within a week in two separate attacks in the middle of the day! The fox is digging in, we have had to double up on security but its becoming a problem. I was thinking about this today whilst weeding (as you do) when they banned foxhunting they should have put in place a cull of some type, afterall the fox has no natural predator. The problem is becoming bigger and eventually they will have to do something about it, the attacks in towns and cities has already begun and it will only get worse. The problem is shortsightedness when these reforms are made by people who A) have no idea about the countryside or B) dont care because they are chasing a cause!

AengusOg

  • Guest
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2011, 04:46:33 pm »
There is talk of repeal of the hunting act, under the coalition government of Englandshire, which would reinstate foxhunting along with all the rural benefits of it to flora and fauna. Personally I can't wait for hunting to become a legal method of fox control once again. It is the only humane way of culling foxes left.


Beewyched

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • South Wales
    • tunkeyherd.co.uk
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2011, 10:48:16 pm »
We are lucky with foxes here - our holding backs onto an Estate that has Shoots & employs a full-time gamekeeper, part of his job is to dispatch of all foxes in the area.  Plus we have male dogs - so the smell of their wee should keep away any odd stray fox  ;)

The problem we do have is Mink - the ruddy critters even got into the loft of the house this winter  ???  Just lost our first chick to a Mink last night - thought I'd counted them all in before I shut the shed, but 2 had hidden overnight in the garden.  1 was ok, but got a fright when I let the dogs out first thing - the other wasn't a pretty sight  :(
Tunkey Herd - registered Kune Kune & rare breed poultry - www.tunkeyherdkunekune.com

Hilarysmum

  • Joined Oct 2007
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2011, 05:28:20 pm »
I read on another thread that the townies are collecting their town foxes and dumping them en masse in country gardens and fields.  I wonder if smallholders should return the compliment, catch all the damned foxes and dump them in the centre of big cities.  (OK I know its only dreaming but ......)  just had a bad fox day!

Beewyched

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • South Wales
    • tunkeyherd.co.uk
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2011, 05:41:10 pm »
Hiya HM  :wave:

That's a ggod one ;) ;D

Yep, we had a HUGE problem with this where we lived in Wales - you'd know when it happened, the murdering multiplied overnight.  The problem is, not only do they not know how to survive in the wild - so go for easy prey (such as penned-in poultry/young lambs/pigletts) BUT they also have no or little fear of humans or dogs.  Some Townie do-gooders even rear abandoned fox pups alongside their dogs - then when they get "wild" with the pet dog it's = dump "somewhere nice in the country"...

Now you've got me started  >:(
Tunkey Herd - registered Kune Kune & rare breed poultry - www.tunkeyherdkunekune.com

Hilarysmum

  • Joined Oct 2007
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2011, 08:10:00 am »
Its really a case of education, probably in primary school.  Its really hard to argue with someone who has the "cause" stuck in their mind and can not see the problem with a nice cuddly fox taking a few chickens.  After all we eat chickens dont we. 

Coley

  • Joined Apr 2011
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2011, 10:22:15 am »

It is the only humane way of culling foxes left.
What is 'humane' about it? shooting them is humane but tearing them to bits with an out of control pack of hounds is anything but humane and what benefits to flore and fauna does a crowd of people tearing around the countryside on horses bring?

Hilarysmum

  • Joined Oct 2007
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2011, 12:48:22 pm »
Coley I sit on the fence when it comes to hunting, but not sure that poor shooting (not talking about crack shots who kill with a single bullet) poisoning and trappping dont appear to be humane to me. 

On the other hand the fox does incredible damage, which I can respect when its taking for food, but not when the mauled bodies of my poor ducks are left headless in the stream.  And yes it was definitely a fox not a stoat.

Coley

  • Joined Apr 2011
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2011, 01:19:25 pm »

I have seen the damage foxes can do at first hand, but usually they eat all they kill (in the wild that is) however I appreciate the problems faced by poultry owners and have no easy answers, you dont have to be a 'crack shot,' a 22 with a decent telescopic sight will do the job easily and trapping followed by humane destruction would be my second choice.
But on the other hand I have also seen the damage a pack of hounds can do, take it from me, you dont want any livestock getting in their way (or young tree plantations) or to be driving when Mr fox leads them onto a busy road as I have seen happen twice.
As for townies re-homing urban foxes in the wild, well you have idiots in all walks of life ::)

OhLaLa

  • Joined Sep 2010
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2011, 11:20:13 am »

....foxes are a part of the countryside and if we are going to provide them with lunch in the shape of unsecure coops etc we should blame ourselves not the fox, however I also agree they can be a problem but when this is the case they should be shot, not pursued across the country by weirdos on horses.

________________________

I have seen the damage foxes can do at first hand, but usually they eat all they kill (in the wild that is) however I appreciate the problems faced by poultry owners and have no easy answers, you dont have to be a 'crack shot,' a 22 with a decent telescopic sight will do the job easily and trapping followed by humane destruction would be my second choice.
But on the other hand I have also seen the damage a pack of hounds can do, take it from me, you dont want any livestock getting in their way (or young tree plantations) or to be driving when Mr fox leads them onto a busy road as I have seen happen twice.
As for townies re-homing urban foxes in the wild, well you have idiots in all walks of life ::)


Well said.

OhLaLa

  • Joined Sep 2010
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2011, 11:28:24 am »
To reply to the original question:

He was prob traumatised - how is he now?

Re securing a poultry run:

Use sturdy fencing at least 6ft high - inc the fence posts. Tension it too, especially around the top.
Dig the fence into the the ground by AT LEAST 6 inches.
Concrete underneath the gate area. Put a good bolt on the gate.
Lock up the hen house at night inc pophole. A bolt is simple to fit, easy to use and quick to open/close up.
For an added bit of zap run a strand of electric fence wire around the outside of the run, about 12" up from the ground - keep it clear of long grass etc.

Hope all is well.

feldar

  • Joined Apr 2011
  • lymington hampshire
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2011, 11:41:12 am »
The lady behind me in Tescos the other day was buying roast chicken legs to feed the local foxes. when i replied i fed them all the time with a lump of lead she was not impressed.She reminded me that the fox mange can be cured with some stuff you buy from the vet and that it is only the female fox that smells when she has cubs. Hope that has educated you all, i was open mouthed and had to leave before i completely lost control of myself and performed a very serious act in our local Tesco!!!

AengusOg

  • Guest
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2011, 01:13:35 pm »
It's pretty obvious that some people have absolutley no idea what foxhunting with hounds is about...that is how the ban came about. It had nothing to do with fox welfare. In fact, it has had the opposite affect, with too many foxes now and many of them are suffering.

Hysterical reactions about the ripping to bits of foxes by hounds are counter to the truth, and do nothing to help foxes. Hunting is a truly selective method of fox control. It kills foxes which are old, sick, or otherwise compromised,and ensures the survival of the best individuals to breed the next generation.

The options are:

Shooting. I have used a shotgun for forty years, and I have shot countless foxes. Some were killed instantly, many were wounded and had to be followed up using dogs, not always successfully. All foxes which receive a dose of lead into their bodies will die from septicaemia and/or gangrene.

The successful killing of a fox with a shotgun depends on the terrain, the cover in which the shot is taken, the speed at which the animal is moving, the range at which the shot is taken, and the expertise of the shooter. Anybody with a shotgun can, and often will, take a pot shot at any fox they see. Users of shotguns are not described as marksmen. Because the shot from a shotgun cartridge spreads as it flies through the air, the shotgun is a 'point and shoot' weapon, rather than one which requires specific aim.

Foxes can be shot using an appropriate rifle, which does require a good degree of marksmanship, but it is not always possible to get a good bead on a fox with a rifle as foxes are not inclined to stand out in the open presenting an ideal opportunity to the marksman. It is unwise to use a rifle to shoot a fox in cover, as even a blade of grass can deflect a bullet enough to foul the shot. Foxes shot in the lungs can run on and be lost. They do leave a trail of frothy blood which, in favourable conditions, can help their retrieval. Shot in the heart, they will probably drop dead. There is not much space between heart and lungs in a fox, and a marksman trying to put a bullet in the right place at 100-150 yards has to be extremely efficient. Foxes which receive a bullet in the gut are almost impossible to find as they run on for considerable distances, leaving no discernable sign to follow. Shots to the head at such range, with the complications presented by cover, position of the target, wind speed/direction, and the ability of the operator, are seldom attempted.

Snaring. Foxes are creatures of habit, and they will use certain routes regularly. This allows the use of snares as a reliable means of killing them. Runs through fences, or in the open can be watched for fox activity, and snares hung to catch them. It doesn't take a great deal of skill to set a snare on a fox run. However, the skill comes in ensuring that the snare kills the fox, and not some other non-target user of the route, such as a badger, or a roe deer, or someone's cat or dog, or an otter...

Any animal caught in a snare is held by the ensnared part of the body until death comes about. If the snare is around the neck, as it should be if it was correctly set, death is by strangulation. If it is around some other part of the body, the ensnared creature must rely on the conscientious snarer to turn up, as he is required to do by law, within twenty four hours, to bring about release or death. Many animals caught in snares for even a short period are not fit for release.

I have seen badgers caught in snares and, before they have died, they have dug huge holes in the ground, and almost completely destroyed the base of fence straining posts, their claws blunted and bleeding, and their teeth broken. Some of them have attempted to climb the fence on which the snare was set, and have died hung from the fence wires. I have seen evidence of snared foxes dragging a log, to which the snare was attached, for considerable distances before dying. Some were still alive when discovered. Deer in snares don't bear thinking about.

Gassing. It is legal to use gas to kill foxes below ground. Where they are known to be in an earth, the operator will dig turves and lay them in the hole mouths, effectively blocking them, after phostoxin tablets are deposited in the earth. Moisture within the blocked earth activates the poisonous gas, which permeates the system and kills the inhabitants. If these holes are later unblocked and investigated, there will often be found dead foxes within the first few feet, demonstrating that they have attempted to exit the earth before death.

Badgers are often to be found in holes in the ground away from their recognised setts, as are cats on occasion, otters, and sometimes stoats and weasels.

Lamping with a rifle. Night shooting with lamp and rifle is an effective way of killing foxes, but only if the foxes have not been lamped of shot at before. Foxes which have been repeatedly disturbed by lampers will not stick around when the beam sweeps over them. It is a very good way to kill the young foxes of the last cubbing as they begin to find their way around and disperse from their birth den. They are pretty bold and inquisitive,and have no sense of the dangers from lamps or rifles.

Other ways in which foxes can be killed are many. Terriers can be used to bay at the fox below ground, giving men the opportunity to use electronic locators on the dogs' collars to locate the position of dogs and fox, and to dig to them. Conscientious operators will kill the fox humanely, but that is not always the case. Some terriers are extremely hard and, having met with foxes before, will just go straight in and kill their fox. Badgers can inadvertently, or otherwise, be victims of such activities.

Lurchers and running dogs can be used by day and night to course and kill foxes.

Poison baits can be set out to kill foxes. Such activity can endanger non-target species.

Oh, and foxes can sometimes be caught in cage traps. Some people consider them to be humane, but I suppose much depends on the method of killing them once discovered.

Many people are not fussy about how, or when, foxes meet their deaths. Some couldn't care less. I haven't met anyone, ever, who would lose any sleep over a fox or how it died...apart from hunting folk.

Those people who hunted foxes with hounds, and who considered their activity to be a sport as well as a means of fox control, had a duty of care for the fox as a species. Vixens were left alone during the breeding season. Copses and coverts were established in many old hunting countries, and hedges and rail fences were preserved as those were beneficial to foxes and to the enjoyment and challenge of hunting.

Hounds were bred for generations to have the qualities required for hunting their quarry. Huntsmen cared for their hounds and their hounds loved them for it. Horses were bred and maintained; hundreds of people and businesses were involved on the peripheries of the hunts and their stables and kennels, and communities were based on mutual needs and respect.

Foxes were hunted and were either killed or got away, depending on their ability or, sometimes, on the consideration of them by hunt staff. Not all foxes were killed. Some, having given a good run and displayed guile and strength, were left to live on.

Surely hunting was the only truly humane and selective method of fox control, having self-discipline and preservation, not destruction, of the fox at its heart.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2011, 09:59:21 pm by AengusOg »

feldar

  • Joined Apr 2011
  • lymington hampshire
Re: FOXES !!
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2011, 09:37:46 pm »
Gosh i think we've opened a can of worms here! foxes are a part of our British wildlife and love em or hate them they are here to stay, I quite like to see a healthy happy good looking fox though that's not to say I wouldn't shoot him if he were making off with one of my lambs! It's all about balance too much of one thing is not good and at least foxhunting did move the cubs on a bit not concentrate them in one area.
I hate the thought of people feeding them, they are wild and should be able to get their own food

 

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