[jaykay]

Newbie beekeeper here.

Having successfully got our bees through the winter this year, I went in today (nice sunny day but no bees flying) to find barely any bees at all, loads of dead ones, no stores but uneaten fondant.

I tipped out all the dead bees from the floor, which had a few live ones amongst them, onto a board in the sun hoping the live ones would warm up and fly. Found a queen and put her back in the hive, but I suspect she's a virgin queen. She can scarcely have had chance to mate I don't think, there have been almost no flying days to date this year (we live in Cumbria at 1000ft).

So - why have all my bees died, apparently starving though fondant left.
What about the queen I found?
Will they be able to build up again or have I lost them again  (they froze to death at -18C last year, this year we insulated the hive and they survived - until this  )

[lazybee]

Hello,
I'm afraid this hive sounds like it's finished. The bees wouldn't have found the fondant if they were weak and had clustered down below. What I don't understand is why people are using fondant in the first place? if all the syrup feeding is done (starting in August) there is no need for fondant. I have never used it. Bees need syrup in the late summer for their winter stores or even early summer after the spring flow if you find they are getting short. Emergency fondant in winter or early spring is too late 8 times out of 10. If you have small colonies at the end of the summer it's always best to unite them with another so you have a strong stocks to go to the rape fields. Rape is excellent for making increases.


I wrote this on another thread most would apply to your situation too:


QUOTE: "You need a strong stock to cover the brood sufficiently. I would appear this stock is doomed from what you've written. It does sound strange that there's pollen going in though, are you sure there's no eggs or brood? Again though if there's no brood. The colony is history. If you are confident they haven't died out through disease. Use the empty hive as a bait hive to attract a new swarm. Then concentrate your efforts on making increase. Try to have an absolute minimum of two hives. Then if you ever find yourself in the same position again you can bail one out with the other". Stick with it
It gets easier 
PS a bait hive is best about 10 foot off the ground in a shaded spot but not a cold spot. Drawn comb is needed for the scent. Check now and again to make sure the wax moths haven't found it.

[Beewyched]

hiya JK

Sadly I agree with what  Lazybee has already posted - sounds like they've had it 

Are you sure you are feeding them up enough before the winter? & did you check/treat for varroa? 

The last colony shouldn't have had any problem surviving the cold - it's the damp/wet that can kill them - if you have a strong colony going into the winter, they can cope with the cold (though I must admit to giving them candy from Christmas until I notice them carry-put their spring-clean.

Hope you have better luck with your next colony 

[jaykay]

Thank you. I got this as a small colony from a bee-keeping friend, who'd made it up from one of his hives for me. He said to put on the fondant because although they had some stores, not enough perhaps.

How cold can they survive - it was -18C here a few nights last winter, but we did insulate them. Hmmm, if damp/wet kills them they won't stand much chance up here. Is that because they can't fly in the wet?

He's got a swarm from last year he says I can have. I must try to do a better job with those 

No rape within flying distance of here. No nothing much, which may be the problem. We're in a remote valley, with wet grassland and sheep. Some willows. Not a lot of flowers - about to start planting a garden, which will hopefully help. We do get lots of celandine, kingcup and meadowsweet but don't know if these are any good for bees.

Since I'm talking about that, is there information anywhere about what to plant to give 'all through the year' food for them?

[lazybee]

Hello again,

I don't think the temperature is a problem, as beekeeping is big business in Canada. Planting for bees in your garden is literally a drop in the ocean. It's nice to see bees in the garden though.You didn't say where you are? what about other trees in your area? Willow is good early on in the year but you need more. They normally find something. The worst places for bees are the arable grain prairies.

[jaykay]

Hi Lazybee, I'm in Cumbria

[OhLaLa]

I also have never fed fondant, I feed syrup. Do your checks and make sure they go into the winter with enough stores.

---------

I've currently got a few bait hives out - one of them has been up in the branches of an apple tree for about 3 weeks now, complete with drawn comb. Plenty of bees on the flower but not a sniffter so far (but early days yet).

 

[jaykay]

Had I had this colony before the winter, and had it been a full-sized colony, it could no doubt have been fed syrup to get sufficient stores built up before winter. But it wasn't.

[Beewyched]

Sounds like that's the problem JK 

From what you've posted, it sounds like your friend may have made-up the nuc for you a little late in the year - they probably weren't strong enough to survive the winter - they didn't have a chance to make stores.  Any feeding should finish before the end of October (they cannot get the water content low enough if the temperature drops) - the cluster wouldn't have been big enough to keep warm either & will have huddled & not found the fondant - shame    Did you take the Queen excluder off?  If the Queen couldn't get to the feed the workers will not leave her & rather starve 
Try getting your next nuc in the spring/summer, so they can build themselves up enough to get through.  I did get one in September & fed them constantly until the end of October & they survived beautifully though. 
Same problems with the cold & wet up here too - cold is ok for the bees - it's any damp getting into the hive - through the walls & up the feet - keep well ventilated, stand on paving slabs, put frames the "cold" way round, matchsticks under the corners of the crown board - I know it sounds cruel, but they must have plenty of air circulation & the hive needs to "breathe".

[jaykay]

Thanks Beewyched, there's some really good advice here  I didn't take the queen excluder off - so much to learn  Didn't think about that but it makes sense now you explain 

Hopefully I can have the swarm my friend took last summer and I'll feed them all the syrup they can take. And I'll do that thing with the ventilation too, cos it's certainly damp here. The hive is on a stand, so that will help I think and I did have the frames the cold way.

I need to learn so much - I'm better with books than courses. Can anyone recommend a very comprehensive but 'starting from basics' one?

[egglady]

can someone just remind me what the 'cold way' is please?

[Beewyched]

JK - the book I started with was "The complete guide to Beekeeping" by Jeremy Evans - a little old fashioned, but full of good, clear info (lots of piccys too  )   The book that is being sold in "starter kits" at the moment is called "Bees at the bottom of the Garden" so I assume it is a good beginners book.
It would really be helpful for you to join your local Bee Keepers Society, it will be registered with the BKA so you will find the contact details for it on their website - your local BKS might be able to find you some more bees & a mentor (to make sure you don't murder any more bees -  sorry that was sick of me - we all make mistakes)
There is also a good site www.the-beeman.co.uk a chap in Scotland that sells nucs & equipment, runs courses etc. I think there's a forum on there, never been on it myself though. 
Maybe we should be a little more active on this forum & remind each other to do the jobs that need attending to throughout the year - we all learn by doing & no-one knows it all 

Egglady - the "cold way" is having the frames at 90 degrees to the entrance side - so the wind blows in.  The "warm way" is running the frames parallell to the entrance side - warmer, but the air doesn't circulate evenly.

Remember - which ever way you decide to run your frames, they MUST be the same way on any/every super you add-on.

[lazybee]

Hello just a note on 'cold way' and matchsticks under the roof. These methods are not necessary. A cold air 'chimney' is quite harsh and not good for bees. Nowadays the open mesh (Varroa) floor has been almost universally adopted. This is why most new roofs are insulated with polystyrene. Top ventilation is mentioned in some of the old bee books (Hooper).

[Beewyched]

Hello just a note on 'cold way' and matchsticks under the roof. These methods are not necessary. A cold air 'chimney' is quite harsh and not good for bees. Nowadays the open mesh (Varroa) floor has been almost universally adopted. This is why most new roofs are insulated with polystyrene. Top ventilation is mentioned in some of the old bee books (Hooper).

That's interesting LB - I had a brand new hive for my birthday last year from my OH it had a mesh floor (so I didn't use the matchsticks on that one) but my OH had paid extra for the floor & there was no lining/insulation inside the roof   

[jaykay]

I have a mesh floor (and no insulation in the roof) but was told to slide in the insulated floor for winter. What you're saying is that they could just have the mesh floor all winter. Even though it's cold?
Have bought some bee books