Author Topic: Clostridia - Heptavac/Lambivac (Read 16333 times)

McRennet · « **on:** April 02, 2011, 10:38:30 pm »

Ok folks here the next dilemma I face.

I want to vaccinate the 2 girls for clostridia as they are within 4-6 weeks of kidding however I am also aware that there is NO LICENSED vaccine on the UK. The BGS used to recommend Lamivac but the company who produce it decided not to re-license on economic grounds.
So.......... that leaves me with Heptavac.
I made the mistake of mentioning that I was getting goats in my local 'farmers one-stop-shop' and hence when I raised the topic of vaccination they very quickly informed me that they could not legally sell Heptavac to me.
Do I have to get my vet to administer?
Can I buy direct from the Vet and administer myself (which I am more than comfortable doing)?
Or are people, honestly, a little sneaky....!

All replies are gratefully received.

Yours,
McRennet

Anke · « **Reply #1 on:** April 02, 2011, 11:02:47 pm »

You can still buy Lambivac for your goats, it is not up to the merchant to decide what you use it for. If they won't - find another (if possible). Doses are the same as for sheep (i.e. two ml once for booster, but every six months rather than once a year as for sheep, and the initial course is 2 x 2ml 4 weeks apart). It is an injection under the skin, and with goats it works quite well if use the bare skin under their front leg (their arm pit in other words), just lift the skin up like a tent and inject into that. Best done with two people and goat safely restrained.

If not available through the merchants, your vet may have some doses around, but mine doesn't. But vet could order it for you. Smallest one you can buy is 25 doses pack unfortunately. There have been threads in the sheep section on how (if at all) you can store it.

People use Heptavac as well, but as far as I know goats don't suffer as much from the adult sheep clostridial diseases, so I am staying with Lambivac.

You will find that there are very, very few medicines actually licensed for goats, so your vet will advise on which sheep/cattle medicines (such as wormers - very important) you would be best to use. Withdrawal for milk is then usually a matter of "how long is a piece of string...", and it will be up to you to decide for example how long not to drink their milk.

Roxy · « **Reply #2 on:** April 02, 2011, 11:48:00 pm »

Every time I get anything from the vet for the goats, they recite - probably as they have to - that it is not licensed for goats.......this includes foot spray etc!! I tend to get what I can from our agricultural merchants who stock a wide range of necessary wormers/medicines etc. cos its cheaper than the vets. None for goats of course. They never question what I am using it on. I just use a sheeps dose for most things, as the vet recommended, and have never had a problem.

wytsend · « **Reply #3 on:** April 03, 2011, 09:49:03 am »

I use and have only ever used... Heptavac P.. there are a lot of people out there who don't but it is the only one that can be used a preventative against pasteurella/pneumonia.
Goats are very prone to succumbing to Pasteurella as a result of major trauma... injuries, transit tetany etc.

The dose is 2ml initially and then 3/4wks later another 2ml. Repeat annually slightly inside the 12 months.

When buying over the counter, it is always for SHEEP. Goats simpl;y do not figure on anybody's official radar.

I have had considerable experience with Heptavac P, have bred goats for over 35 years so if you would like to discuss do please give me a call on

01647 231456.

plumseverywhere · « **Reply #4 on:** April 03, 2011, 01:20:52 pm »

I lost my milking goat to what was 99% sure pneumonia and after speaking to Wytsend and also the worcestershire goat society people, Heptavac P is the only thing I would use now. my goat was 'off colour' a couple of days before we went on a weekend away and within hours of us going started to develop pneumonia symptoms, a sure sign that the stress of new 'carers' had triggered more.
currently i have it drawn up by my vet in syringes for each goat but if you have several goat keepers nearby could you buy a vial between you?
send a friend to the farm suppliers and say its for their sheep.

wytsend · « **Reply #5 on:** April 03, 2011, 02:51:23 pm »

The storage time of a bottle is recommendation to protect the manufacturers. If the bottle is stored in the fridge after having been wiped with surgical spirit, it will keep for several months.

Naturally manufacturers do not accept this. I had an oldish bottle tested some years ago ... wish I could find the results paper... by a private laboratory who declared the contents as efficient as if just opened for the first time. The bottle was still within the 'use by' date.

I agree it is better to use a bottle in one go but, with small herds this is not always possible. If a bottle is not used completely, put it aside for emergency use in the case of pneumonia, should an unopened bottle not be available, which is clearly preferable.

Anke · « **Reply #6 on:** April 03, 2011, 03:29:49 pm »

Quote from: wytsend on April 03, 2011, 02:51:23 pm

If a bottle is not used completely, put it aside for emergency use in the case of pneumonia, should an unopened bottle not be available, which is clearly preferable.

So would you inject at the first signs of pneumonia? 2ml? Would be good to know, as I usually have some Heptavac over from the sheep.

Also you only vaccinate/booster once a year, rather than the recommended 6monthly?

wytsend · « **Reply #7 on:** April 03, 2011, 05:44:50 pm »

Annual vaccination is the minimum. I would recommend 6 monthly if you show etc but my goats never leave the premises.

I would give 4ml if you suspect pneumonia following trauma. Otherwise pneumonia from illness is another matter and requires vet assistance very very quickly. Do not ever go down the route of 'we see what she's like tomorrow' tomorrow may not come. Goats are very like cats when unwell... they virtually give up.

Anke · « **Reply #8 on:** April 03, 2011, 09:26:20 pm »

Thanks for that. I vaccinate six monthly, as I do show my goats (or just starting to...).

ballingall · « **Reply #9 on:** April 03, 2011, 10:30:54 pm »

Quote from: wytsend on April 03, 2011, 09:49:03 am

I use and have only ever used... Heptavac P.. there are a lot of people out there who don't but it is the only one that can be used a preventative against pasteurella/pneumonia.
Goats are very prone to succumbing to Pasteurella as a result of major trauma... injuries, transit tetany etc.

The dose is 2ml initially and then 3/4wks later another 2ml. Repeat annually slightly inside the 12 months.

When buying over the counter, it is always for SHEEP. Goats simpl;y do not figure on anybody's official radar.

I have had considerable experience with Heptavac P, have bred goats for over 35 years so if you would like to discuss do please give me a call on

01647 231456.

Ditto that- have always used Heptavac P- and been keeping/breeding goats for over 40 years now.

ballingall · « **Reply #10 on:** April 03, 2011, 10:35:19 pm »

Quote from: wytsend on April 03, 2011, 02:51:23 pm

The storage time of a bottle is recommendation to protect the manufacturers. If the bottle is stored in the fridge after having been wiped with surgical spirit, it will keep for several months.

And ditto that as well.

We use two vets now- we still occasionally use the vets where we used to live to buy medication, and we use our local one as well. Our local one will let us have pretty much any product- BUT if it is considered risky (to their mind) to use it on goats, we have to sign a disclaimer, saying if anything went wrong it wouldn't be their fault. We had to sign a disclaimer last month to get some Vitamin B12 to inject the goats with!

Buying a bottle of Heptavac and sharing it between goatkeepers is useful- we use our bottles for ourselves, and mum goes and vaccinates 2 friends goats as well.

Beth

Beth

McRennet · « **Reply #11 on:** April 04, 2011, 07:01:39 pm »

My gosh I am so glad I posted this question!

Having read all the responses and following a rather enjoyable and very much informative conversation with Wytsend I went out and bought a bottle of Haptavac P (I am all of a sudden a sheep owner) and have injected the girls this evening. I had to get a passing stong man to hold the goats for me but other that it was very simple.
They went hack the their hay very quickly.

Thank you for all the help, it is much appreciated for a first timer.

One last thing, when repeating just inside the 12 months, do you go from the first inoculation or the second?

wytsend · « **Reply #12 on:** April 05, 2011, 07:00:35 am »

The first one.

I like to leave the second one to no more than 4 weeks.... many differing opinions.

Also the next annual one, try and do it about 4 weeks before the kids are due. It will probably mean you are doing it in abopuit 10/11 months time, but you will then be on the right course/timing to give the kids maximum immunity.

Kids need to start their own personal vaccination at about 6 weeks old.

Do ring any evening for a chat, McRennet!