[dyedinthewool]

Hi, 
We have limed (Jan) - harrowed - spent 2 days cutting the dry rough grass pulled up by harrows (on ride-on mower) re-harrowed (hard) after this little bit of nice rain we had yesterday.

Today - over seeded with Rye/whiteclover - gently harrowed over again.  Haven't been able to roll as we would have liked. OH hasn't had time to cobble a roller up.

Did a DIY NPK test... Result  N - whitish - not even pale pink...
                                       P - Pale Green (Lowest)
                                       K - Clear - no little black dots.

Googled but couldn't find any info on what NPK levels should be for grassland.

What ratio of NPK should we be using ie: 20-10-10 or what?
How much per acre - I realise that we are trying to encourage new grass so we can't over use but feel we need to put something on.

Any help suggestions would be appriciated.

Thanks

[Declan]

I was in pretty much the same situation. As I too didn't know the advice received was generally 20-10-10 would probably be the best.

[Rosemary]

There is no "standard" NPK for grassland. The correct levels depend on what you are using the garss for - grazing, cutting or both; what the sward is and what do you want it to be  - does it have clover, for example; and what the current nutrient status is of the soil.

If you have or want to have a sward rich in clover, spreading N fertiliser will do much harm. The N makes the grasses to grow quickly and outcompete the clover. If it is for pasture and not cutting, the animals will return nutrients to the soil anyway. But N and clover are a waste.

Since you seem to be putting a lot of work into this, why don't you get a proper soil test done - this will tell you accurately the pH, plus levels of P, K and trace elements.

Our grassland - 12 acres - needs lime on one 2 acre paddock only, potash only on all fields. Phosphate levels are fine across them all and pH is above 7 on two of the paddocks - probably limed without the pH being tested. Trace elements are low in most but we'll use feed blocks to correct this year rather than spreading Grasstrac as the lime and potash will be enough to be getting on with. We're spreading a 0:0:60 to correct the major potash deficiency plus calcified limestone on Sheepfold for pH and Ca deficiency.

I have no idea what the colours mean on your test - presumably the test kit will tell you? Simply bunging on 20:10:10 may do more harm than good. It woudl be a shame to undermine all your harm work and effort.

[VSS]

If you have put down clover seed, you want to be very wary of putting down too much nitrogen as the grass species are likely to outgrow the clover and swamp it out. I would suggest you ask you local merchant (perhaps where the seed came from?). I would lean towards something with a more even npk balance, or possisbly higher P and K.

Once the clover is established, the same applies. Don't be too heavy handed with the nitrogen. The clover should be fixing it from the atmosphere anyway.

[dyedinthewool]

Thanks for your helpful comments.

We hope to get a cut of hay even if it will be a late cut due to the reseeding, then use for feeding up to christmas. Next year we hope to shut the field up earlier for hay.  We have 2 other paddocks for just grazing.

Did ask our local co-op agri man - he suggested 14-14-21 (due to my test results - low in everything!! high PH) put on at a low rate so that the new grass seed/ clover wasn't over whelmed.  He said better to put on 3 times through the year, too much and we would be wasting the fert as the plant roots can't take it all up - 1 straight away - 1 or possible 2 with a month or so between depending on the weather/growth etc - 1 after cutting for hay (if grown enough). Otherwise we shall use for grazing as we still have some hay left from last years cut - not bad hay seeing as the grass/field was in such a bad state.

We will get a proper soil test done in the autum as the ground is possible deficient in trace elements.

thanks again for your input, it's always appreciated that others take the time to help those of us who are not quite sure of what they are doing

[VSS]

We will get a proper soil test done in the autum as the ground is possible deficient in trace elements.

This is an interesting one. Why test the soil? Our stock don't eat the soil. They eat the grass. Highly recommend you get a forage sample done instead. Any deficiencies in the forage will relate directly to dietry deficiencies in your stock. We had one done last year as we were having particular problems with lamb growth on our main piece of rough grazing. It was very revealing and explained why the lambs were so poor, and now we can supplement to correct it.

Try getting in touch with this chap http://www.jganimalhealth.co.uk - Jonathon Guy really knows his stuff.

[robert waddell]

your stock my not eat the soil but the grass gets the nutrients from the soil that is why you test the soil so you are not wasting your money or your fertiliser

[Rosemary]

high PH

Did you lime before testing?

[dyedinthewool]

high PH

Did you lime before testing?

No - tested the soil from several areas of field PH averaged 5-5.5 we were advised to put on lime in two stages.  Stage one in Jan - 2nd in the autumn.  It had been limed when I took fresh samples for the NPK test though, as I took the samples from 5" down I can't think that would have affected the result.

VSS and Lillianwaddell
I always thought to get goodness from the land the soil has to be right - you only get out what you put in - so by hopefully getting the soil right (may take a few years...) the grass will improve and fertilsers will not be required - nature (as in the clover and sheep grazing) will be suffient enough. Though by taking a cut of hay each year nutrients will be lost - so may have to result to some sort of fert aid but in smaller/less potent quantity. 

[robert waddell]

lime phosphate and potash are all that is required when you have  a clover sward the sheep return the nutrients to the ground
nitrogen greens the grass and depleats the other nutrients in the ground

[VSS]

your stock my not eat the soil but the grass gets the nutrients from the soil that is why you test the soil so you are not wasting your money or your fertiliser

It make more sense to test what they are actually eating.

[dyedinthewool]

your stock my not eat the soil but the grass gets the nutrients from the soil that is why you test the soil so you are not wasting your money or your fertiliser

It make more sense to test what they are actually eating.

so before a raging argument is started over wether you need to test soil or the feed value of the grass/sward maybe I shall do both - just out of interest

[robert waddell]

another aspect is plough and resead it all depends on what you want to spend and what you want to achieve
but you have overseaded which was all the rage in the 60s 70s(spray with gramoxone rotacast and wait for the grass to grow

[Rosemary]

another aspect is plough and resead it all depends on what you want to spend and what you want to achieve
but you have overseaded which was all the rage in the 60s 70s(spray with gramoxone rotacast and wait for the grass to grow

I don't think they have overseeded in the way you mean - I don't think they have sprayed - just spread seed into the existing sward. But I may be wrong.

[robert waddell]

yes rosemary that is how dyiedinthewool seeded it i only highlighted the howard rotacaster method as a similar method and widely  used at the time to reseed marginal land