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Author Topic: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?  (Read 6747 times)

andywalt

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Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« on: February 12, 2011, 08:34:25 pm »
You made a comment on my previous post, please tell me what the hebbys are like? good mothers? easy lambing? meat?  are they a bit skitty with a dog? Id like to hear about them please if you can spare a few mins  ;D

andy
Suffolk x romneys and Texel X with Romney Tup, Shetlands and Southdown Tup

HappyHippy

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Re: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2011, 10:00:58 pm »
I'm going to jump in here - sorry  :wave:
I spent an hour or so with Juliet's sheep the other day. Now, i know nothing about sheep but wow ! The tups were all reallly chilled out as were the ewes - fine with the little dogs in the field with them and we rounded them up no problem. I think they lamb easily and the meat is wonderful - but Juliet will tell you for sure !
I've never been a sheep fan, but after meeting these one's I'm coming round to them  ;) ;D
Go on - help the rare breeds Andy  ;)

Fergie

  • Joined Oct 2009
Re: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2011, 10:38:56 pm »
I can add to Karen's comments - I've also got Hebrideans, as well as a few Soays.

My starter flock came from Fleecewife, originally a ewe & four ewe lambs, but we now have 18 breeding ewes plus a few tups.  Being primitive sheep we also have 30 lambs from 2010 - they are slow growing and take about 18 months to reach slaughter weight, so we overwinter them and send them to the abattoir as hoggets at the end of their second summer.  Being slow growing, the meat is excellent & virtually fat free.

Their advantage is that they are small & nimble, and easy to keep.  They lamb outside without problems or human intervention and seem to be hardier than most commercial breeds of sheep.  They tend to scatter if startled, rather than flocking, but quickly learn to follow the feed bucket & run towards us if we enter the field.  They'll wander through any gaps in the fencing, just to see what's on the other side, but ours have never jumped a fence to get out (although they've sometimes jumped between fields).  They are very friendly, including the tups.

We don't have a dog now, since the old one died, but both the sheep & old dog ignored each other when she was alive.  I think their habit of scattering rather than flocking might surprise some sheepdogs

I'm sure Fleecewife can add much more information to my comments, but I can recommend them to you.

John

robate55

  • Joined Aug 2010
  • Suffolk
Re: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2011, 10:53:41 pm »
We have Hebrideans. We actually bought them orinally to train our sheepdog on the advice of our trainer. They are used by a number of triallers as they do not run off their condition & are good to teach young dogs on. Ours do flock well when herded but were well dogged before we bought them.
Ours have been very little trouble, although we lambed for the first time last year. Having just slaughtered our first lambs from 2010 they are very tasty. We lambed outside & brought in for 2-3 days for bond well & so that we could get hold of the lambs easily to castrate as they are very lively. Ours will follow a bucket well but I do not particulary tame them. We lambed 20 ewes last year getting 35 lambs. I think I helped 2 - 1first time lamber at 3 years old.
I am very fond of them, although as I am moving 41 to next doors farm tomorrow I may be less pleased tomorrow
Rose

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
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Re: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2011, 12:25:39 am »
Thank you everyone - quick responses  ;D
As a breed, Hebs are long lived, easy lambers (large pelvis compared with body size), good mothers, milky, they have slightly better feet than white hoofed breeds, can live on rougher pasture than commercials with a few more per hectare and their meat is, as the others have said, very tasty - slowly matured so fine grained and low in fat, thought to be high in conjugated linoleic acid (helps break down cholesterol or something like that)as other primitives. Someone referred to 'the skinny legged breeds' on another thread which would include Hebs, but the quality of the meat is so superior to commercial fast grown lamb that the smaller size of joints is not a problem.  A gigot from a 16 m hogget will weigh about 2- 2.5 kgs which is plenty for a modern family meal with enough to have it cold the next day.  There is more meat on than expected too as the bones are smaller and lighter. Hebs don't give cuts such as 'scrag end of neck' or even just 'neck' as they don't have meat there.

Handling has it's pluses and minuses - they are small so easy on the back but both sexes are horned, sometimes with huge sets as the chap on the left so they can be a bit awkward. How friendly they are depends on how they are handled - when we got our first ones it took us all afternoon to round them up when we collected them, but now we have worked out an easy system which they are used to so it's a doddle as Karen said. Lambs born here are much easier to handle compared with some bought-in animals. The trick is never to chase them but walk them slowly and peacefully, otherwise they will scatter. If they break out of a round-up, don't run after them, just start at the beginning again.  Learning about your sheep's psychology will make handling them a pleasure instead of a constant battle - we learned that from an elderly shepherd who couldn't break into a trot, but didn't need to as his sheep did what he wanted them to.   Ours, in southern Scotland at 1000' but good soil give us about 165% lambing percentage ie 2/3rds have twins but triplets are not unknown if you live on the fat lands of Cheshire.
We use our Jack Russell to help bring them in - he has come to an agreement with them where normally they are all the best of friends, but when he starts on at them with his annoying yip they know it's business so in they go - usually  ::). A sheepdog which has never worked with Hebs before will find them confusing to work with, but if the dog and the sheep are both used to the system they can be herded with dogs very well.
As Rose has said, the lambs are very lively. They are up and running usually within 15 mins of birth so catching ours for ringing involves a chase and a rugby tackle.  In fact we rarely ring them now as we wait to see which tups may be good for breeding.  There is no taint to the meat from these entire males when they go off at 16 months. Hebs are born with a thick and resilient birth coat which means they can be born into the teeth of a blizzard and survive, as long as they are licked dry.  We lamb outside in all weathers although if there was a couple of feet of snow we might have to rethink.  Adult fleece is double coated and is claimed to be popular with craft workers - I love it, especially the softer fleece from older ewes, but I don't exactly have buyers flocking to my door to buy the fleece.  The finished products (jumpers, socks etc) are very popular though, as the wool is very lightweight but warm and of course doesn't show the dirt  ;D
In 15 years of breeding them we have lost only one set of twins (in our first year and down to our inexperience) and have helped one other texel cross lamb with it's legs back. Two horned tup lambs can be a bit of a squeeze for a first time lamber and may need extra lubrication but mostly we just let them get on with it.  For shepherds who like to have immediate access to their lambing ewes, lambing outside is scary as if you do need to intervene you will have to catch the ewe first - but that does tend to help the lamb out. Many Heb breeders lamb indoors and they cope well with this, so you don't have to do the outdoor lambing thing.
Hebs are very alert and aware of their surroundings - all sheep are, but the primitives more than most. They are certainly eye-catching and a pleasure to have around.  We do keep other breeds and have kept more in the past but we do love our Hebs  :love: ;D
The breed soc is very friendly and small, with twice yearly get togethers and Hebs can be shown to good effect, although we don't do that much.
Take a peep at our website and that might tell you more, also about why we breed the rarer multihorned, topknotted and polled types.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 11:42:17 am by Fleecewife »
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

HappyHippy

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Re: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2011, 01:30:25 am »
I've been thinking (a phrase which strikes Bruce with fear  ;) :D) about Hebs.......
Tell me please,
Do they need shearing or do they drop their fleece ? (I think I'm maybe confusing them with Soay's - or maybe not, I don't do sheep..........yet ;)please excuse the idiot in the corner :dunce:)
Would you need to have a dog to round them up, if say you just had three or four (or maybe eventually, twenty :o ;D ::)) and got them fairly tame ?
And lastly (OMG I can't believe I'm asking this, but I know nothing  :-\) what do they eat ? Grass in the summer and a bit of hay in the winter ? Or do they need some suppliments, licks, stuff like that ?

I feel a plan coming on....................  ::)
Oh I'd better get to bed, maybe count some Hebs jumping up and down onto the hay feeder  ;D :wave:

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2011, 12:01:06 pm »
Hi Karen.  Yes they do need to be shorn, although the occasional one will 'roo' like Soay and Shetlands ie the fleece peels off or can be pulled off.  Gordon does ours all with hand shears - over 4 to 6 weeks as he can only do a very few at a time.  Even I can shear the odd one so it's nothing to worry about  ;D  No you definitely don't need a dog.  We only use ours because he likes it and it does help a bit.  But your GSD would pick it up quickly.  You can set up a system where you always feed them in a pen, then on the day you want to catch them you just shut the door behind them.  It takes a bit of practice and doesn't always work smoothly but mostly it does.  Ours weren't being friendly when you came because there was rounding up going on and strangers around, but many of our Hebs are extremely friendly, heads in our pockets looking for treats.
Most sheep have as their default setting grazing grass. Because in Britain there isn't usually sufficient grass growth all year round, and because ewes do their 5 months gestation from Nov to Apr, their grass is supplemented with forage - hay or haylage usually, and some grainy stuff such as 'sheep coarse mix' or 'ewe pencils' in winter.  They also need a mineral supplement of some kind - that's what those red tubs around the place here were, not just me being untidy  :D  Primitives such as Hebs need more than just grass in summer, or at least they will survive without it, but love rougher stuff such as branches, thistles and nettles, species-rich grassland.  They are used extensively for Conservation Grazing, where they eat out unwanted species such as young birch scrub and molinia grass.  We get round this here by feeding them willow branches and they also keep the hedges in trim by stretching up over the fences.
Sheep don't follow pigs well as the grass has been messed up so much and that can cause problems, but if you can give them areas where the pigs haven't been excavating your plan (which I think I can see......) could work well  ;) ;D
« Last Edit: February 13, 2011, 03:10:34 pm by Fleecewife »
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

HappyHippy

  • Guest
Re: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2011, 12:12:47 pm »
Ah yes, the pigs  ;D :love: :pig:
It's okay - I have plenty space  ;)
There are lots of places that I could easily give them exactly what they need in terms of grazing - wee 1/2 - 1 acre pockets here and there, in between all the trees (and cos they're darker - Bruce'd never see them  ;D)

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2011, 12:15:25 pm »
Ah yes, the pigs  ;D :love: :pig:
It's okay - I have plenty space  ;)
There are lots of places that I could easily give them exactly what they need in terms of grazing - wee 1/2 - 1 acre pockets here and there, in between all the trees (and cos they're darker - Bruce'd never see them  ;D)


I love it  ;D
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

robert waddell

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Re: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2011, 12:35:22 pm »
Hampshire downs HH they follow you no need for dogs we get veg waste and they love the greens so much they bleat when there is none we are weight recording the sheep as well as the pigs and very interesting the results it all comes down to preference we had some thin legged sheep to start with(gave us the interest) a b*****d to round up initially then with Patience and time they could be worked without a dog as for taste it would be the dearest lamb yet

andywalt

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Re: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2011, 01:45:12 pm »
My word there is obviously alot of heb supporters here and thanks for all the comments and time people have given to reply, its given me alot to think about, does anyone cross them? or does this not work at all?
Suffolk x romneys and Texel X with Romney Tup, Shetlands and Southdown Tup

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2011, 03:08:23 pm »
They cross very well.  We have used a Texel sire.  The lambs are white from most crosses except Jacob and BWM.  The cross-bred lambs fatten more quickly than purebred.  We have even won a 1st for a trio of meat lambs with Heb crosses.  There is more about this on the HebWeb - www.hebrideansheep.org.uk .  You get the best of both worlds with the easy lambing (don't choose a sire from a breed with TOO big a head), milkiness and good meat quality from the dam, with a larger carcass and white wool from the sire - white lambs sell for a higher price in the ring than coloured lambs which are otherwise identical.
Why not try a couple amongst your flock next year and see what you think?  Hebs are not expensive. You would be best to start with ewes which have lambed before for cross-breeding, especially with a large sire.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

kanisha

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Re: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2011, 03:27:08 pm »
Hi fleecewife out of interest have you crossed to BWM yourself? I was curious about them being dominant black if you have found the lambs to be black this would confirm things for me.  the breed society won't discuss it  :-\
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andywalt

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Re: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2011, 04:54:54 pm »
Would you think a Romney or southdown ram would be ok?

here is my romney hes a big lad!!
Suffolk x romneys and Texel X with Romney Tup, Shetlands and Southdown Tup

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Fleecewife, what are hebrideans like?
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2011, 05:43:41 pm »
Hi Kanisha.  No we haven't used BWM ourselves, but one of the acknowledged possible causes for Hebs having about 20% dominant black is past 'secret' addition of BWM blood (possibly in the belief that they were black recessive) and of course Jacob too.  As I understand it, BWM were once black recessive but are now about 80% black dominant - however, I have no immediate hotline to the truth of that, just what is quoted in Heb info.  The 'secret' additon of BWM to Hebs is thought to have occurred in the early days of RBST when breeders were trying to define each breed identified by RBST as at risk. BWM was seen as making Hebs blacker and with heavier horns.  If it happened it was only by a few, but influential, breeders.  Jacob seems to have got into Hebs before the days of RBST when the two breeds were kept in parkland flocks together.  Of course there's no proof of any of this until every sheep breed has its genome mapped and compared.  It doesn't worry me overly as we can't go backwards anyway so we just have to work with the breed as it is today.

Hi fleecewife out of interest have you crossed to BWM yourself? I was curious about them being dominant black if you have found the lambs to be black this would confirm things for me.  the breed society won't discuss it  :-\
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

 

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