[farmlass]

Hello,

I am looking for some advice about scotlish laws, we are trying to build stables... or a shetler.

What base can i lay?

Do i need planning permission for an agricultural building?

any suggestions please.

[Pony-n-trap]

I think as long they arent permanent ie, are not on a permanent base (concrete) then you dont need permission, Something like railway sleepers would be ok.

Suppose it depends where you are though (built up area, overlooked etc)

[robert waddell]

the best ones to ask is your local planning dept    stables are usually erected then the house comes next
i doubt you would get away with horses being agricultural unless they were shires or Clydesdale's
you need a planning consultant they will correctly lead you in the right direction

[Rosemary]

Horses aren't agricultural. There are special circumstances for agricultural buildings. Best to contact your planning department.

[silver swan]

Hi,

Friend of mine had her stables collapse in last years snow , 2009 (weight of snow caved in roof and pushed walls out while 6 horses still inside - all OK though) and has since replaced them with new steel barn. She certainly needed council approval after submitting plans. Here (Moray) they are very particular about drains/lighting and getting everything 'signed off' by structural engineer and electrician. From collapse to actually being able to USE the barn (ie have her horses living in it) was 7 months. Somewhat frustrating for her but good news was that it all has happened.

I suppose it is a case of; 'dot every I and cross every T' )

Really hope you get what you desire too.

[Fleecewife]

Planning laws vary greatly depending on whether you have an agricultural holding or an equine one and precisely where you live.  If agric, the size of building for which you need actual Planning Consent is huge.  However, you still need to check with the planners and get Prior Approval for any building, even sheep shelters - this costs nothing but makes them happy and means that when your neighbours complain you have both legs to stand on.  The best way is to either phone or visit the planning dept for an informal chat - they are a very friendly bunch and prefer to set you on the right path from the beginning.  If you have an equine holding you do have to jump through the hoops.( )

[shetlandpaul]

dont mention horses when you ask for permission to build your animal shelter feed store. there are rules about the size of holding before you can get agri use.

[Hermit]

I would simply ask the planning and see what happens in your area. A neighbour of ours was caught out turning her field into a domestic field complete with menage.They were found out and had to go through planning retropectively. They were also caught out because the land was 'croft' land and a pony of any sort should not have been on there, just sheep apparently, something to do with access to their particular field and that was decided many years ago through a court battle with the last owner. Best do things right and simply check, it only takes one neighbour to complain.

[ambriel]

Depending upon size and how posh you want it to be, could you not just buy an old horse box or transporter and park it in the field?

Before we got our pigs I had a chat with the local planning department about where I could site their shelter and they were very helpful. Lots of technical stuff about being so many metres from the road and the neighbours house, etc.

[shetlandpaul]

I would simply ask the planning and see what happens in your area. A neighbour of ours was caught out turning her field into a domestic field complete with menage.They were found out and had to go through planning retropectively. They were also caught out because the land was 'croft' land and a pony of any sort should not have been on there, just sheep apparently, something to do with access to their particular field and that was decided many years ago through a court battle with the last owner. Best do things right and simply check, it only takes one neighbour to complain.

hermit why would having a pony on your land stop it being croft land. you know that its fine to have shetlands on your land and a bigger horse could be used on the croft. why would the crofters commision care. as long its being used thats the only bother. think of all the large horses that must have been kept on the crofts before tractors.

[Hermit]

I said it was something to do with access to their particular  field. Only sheep could be kept on it as was decided in a court battle years ago. Being croft land was a factor in the argument. So could apply elsewhere. I know people do argue the Shetland pony/ domestic/agri land argument to this day.Personally I would not have one given so dont care but just mentioning it as a factor to consider.

[janeislay]

First, if in Scotland: Beware the wind !! 

I bought a really solid one on skids (if it's mobile you don't need planning) but it took off before I even got a horse anywhere near it    We were going to anchor it with stobs and stays, but the skids were SO heavy we hadn't got round to it.

I got the insurance money (the thing landed not far away but was smashed to pieces) and bought another shelter - also on skids -which had better ventilation, and no roof overhang.  We anchored it with small stays and it's just survived 70 mph winds.

[ambriel]

Wise words, Jane. It gets pretty wild up our way, too. One of our neighbours lost their trampoline a couple of weeks ago and another had his hen house rolled down a hill by the gales. Peaked at around 82kn here.

[Nina]

First, if in Scotland: Beware the wind !! 

I bought a really solid one on skids (if it's mobile you don't need planning) but it took off before I even got a horse anywhere near it    We were going to anchor it with stobs and stays, but the skids were SO heavy we hadn't got round to it.

I got the insurance money (the thing landed not far away but was smashed to pieces) and bought another shelter - also on skids -which had better ventilation, and no roof overhang.  We anchored it with small stays and it's just survived 70 mph winds.

Wow - We've a 24ftx12ft shelter on skids and I wouldn't expect that to need anchoring, but I guess reading that, we should!!! 

[lachlanandmarcus]

If you are in an exposed position I wouldnt do anything without a proper base and the thing coachbolted down into the concrete. And built by a company that is local and understands the wind speeds prevailing. Something with a proper concrete base would need PP if for horses, we have an agric holding of 40 acres but needed PP for the stables as they are horse-specific. We also had to build to building regs and do proper drainage etc. However it is worth it because it means you are all above board and there isnt that slight niggle with doing it without PP.
If you are more sheltered and decide to use the 'its moveable and temporary' argument for not having to have PP, check your local authority rules, (on website if poss to avoid alerting them that you're going to put something up). Dont take what a stables company tells you as fact, some of them vastly generalise and overstate the exemptions. In some locations the mobile stables/shelter have to have no stable doors, no base of any kind and be moved every 28 days, never returning to the same location......in others, anything goes as long as it has skids.
Also how you get on with your neighbours (present and future) could play a part if they are close. It only takes one to kick up a fuss and the planners then have to get involved...

For genuinely agric buildings (ie not horses!) on holdings over 5 hectares (I think but check), agric notifications apply. Buildings over a certain sq m have to comply with building regs (ours is just under the threshold, at 60x40x12ft as I remember, but planning while you dont have to put in full app you do have to submit an agric prior notification form and they have 28 days to accept as agric (then you can go ahead) or require you to put in for full planning. Under 5 ha more restrictions apply - check with planning office.