[Fieldfare]

Hi all- I have a new flock of 2010 ewe lambs (I’ve been lurking for while but now need a bit of advice). 4 days after getting them one developed scours (green wet diarrhoea which is smeared on her backside). The rest are OK and producing well formed green ‘logs and marbles’. Anyway I think it was caused initially by feeding *way too much concentrate* in the first few days and also that I have much more grass than where they came from (they are now on half a handful of ewe nuts for 5 ewes). 5 days on from the first sign she has still got it. Apart from this she looks and acts fine- eating well and being a ‘normal’ flock member. I have not caught her up but she doesn't look too thin. As I have plenty of grass I am not offering hay- should I have introduced them to the lusher grass more slowly? The others are still fine. I hope this makes sense?

I understand that one theory is that if I leave well alone (and she hasn’t got worms) then the rumen bacteria will ‘correct themselves’ and the scour will disappear. Or would a probiotic- something like Pro-Rumen work to help the gut flora recover? Magnesium lick? Bring her in (with a buddy) and feed hay for a while? When do I need to suspect worms and get a vet involved? (or can I just 'borrow' a shot of something?). I'm quite aware of problems with resistant parasites so don't want to dose unnecessarily.

Your thoughts would be very much appreciated!

Thanks

[morri2]

Hi!  I think you've got the right idea so far.  I don't think you need the Pro rumen at this stage if she's looking healthy other than having plip plops.  Sheep often get this problem when moving pasture, especially if the pasture is quite lush (unusual this time of year!!).  Magnesium could make the problem worse so I'd avoid that right now.

Assume the ewe is not in lamb as she's quite young as yet.  How sure are you that she does not have worms? If she's been wormed recently she could be resistant to the wormer if she's had it before so that's something to consider. 

Also, although the grass looks lush, it won't be as nutritious this time of year, so a lick is a good idea, but not a high magnesium one.  The amount of nuts you are giving is very small, if I have understood your post correctly - thats a handful for all five ewes.  A handful each would be nearer the mark if you feel they need it. Depends on what breed of sheep you have.  Lowland sheep or continental breeds will probably need more than native mountain breeds. If they have plenty of forage there's no real need to offer hay if they're having nuts and a lick as well.  You could offer some and see if they eat it.  If mine have nice grass the hay gets ignored and wasted! 

There are more experienced shepherds than me on this site - so you won't be short of advice.  Good luck!

[shep53]

Green scour and normal green pellets is from the grass lush and wet, if it it was the nuts scour would be dark grey, 200 - 300gms aday would on lush grass be fine for ewe lambs ,as lambs they may never have seen hay.Some times i give pepto-bismol which drys up if a digestive upset

[Fieldfare]

Hi all- any other comments on this- particularly when should I see a vet? Should I catch her up and dag/clean the bum area? or just leave alone unless she goes downhill?

Thanks alot

[Fieldfare]

...so scour is actually nothing to worry about so long as the animal is looking otherwise fine (and will correct itself?). So maybe I am over worrying?

Thanks

[Fleecewife]

You say the scours started 4 days after you got the animals.  Did you worm them when they first arrived?  It is good practice to do this to ensure they don't bring anything onto your land and they are worm-free from the start.
I agree with what everyone else is saying, except that if she was mine then I would catch her up - if I could do it calmly with no chasing - to clean her backside before lambing. A new lamb arriving through a load of green dags doesn't sound very healthy - especially if you have to intervene.  Also if you dag her you can see if the scours have stopped or if they continue - if they do continue then ask your vets advice - advice costs nothing but he may have a handy potion which will clear up the problem, which you can administer yourself.  You will have to catch her up anyway in that case.  We handle our ewes throughout pregnancy - very gently obviously - but we have never had problems.  If you run them down to catch them then of course you risk a stress related problem, but management tasks such as scanning, britching etc can be carried out if you round them up carefully.  It's tipping them to do their feet in a large breed which can lead to problems.

[Fieldfare]

Hi folks- thanks for the replies so far. I realise now that I have made a glaring 'schoolboy error' in not ensuring drenching before purchase/placing on my pasture (I feel particularly mad at myself). An update-she still has scour. I watched her carefully today so I could see her poo and have found what looks like part of a tapeworm (posssibly 1 inch long with segments that split up and about 4mm wide). She (they!) have worms. I will drench this week. Any idea on what strategy I should use (what type of drench, this time? next time?). I have found a supplier that can legally sell (if I supply my CPH and flock no.s) so I think I should be able to deal with this myself without getting a vet in? Any advice on parasite resistance and how I can aim to reduce it? Do I need to move them off this paddock (quite some hassle at the moment).

Another question- does anyone use poultry to 'clean up' pasture that has had worm eggshedding stock on? (or is this fanciful?).

Many thanks again for your really helpful advice.

Thanks

[waterhouse]

Yuk.  If you're sure about your identification then be aware that not all wormers touch tapeworm,and there's over 20 different wormer products.  Anything with Albinzole as the active ingredient will be effective but it's a case of RTFM.  Combinex and Cydectin won't touch them but Panacur which is also widely available should be effective against tapeworm (and nematodes, but not fluke)

Yer pays you money, lots of it, and takes yer choice

Using chickens is worth a go if you can manage the fox problem.  It's supposed to work best with cows when doing a rotational grazing system and using the chickens a few days behind to catch the blighters as they hatch. 

[Fleecewife]

I would still suggest you buy your wormer from the vet.  They don't have to do a visit and may be able to supply you with just enough doses for the number of animals you have, which is much cheaper than having to buy one or five litres.  Also they can advise on just which wormer to use at this time of year and suggest a worming plan.  Just going in to the vets to buy things doesn't cost anything and once they have met you, if you have a sudden emergency which does require a visit, they will know who you are.

[shep53]

Could you speak to whom ever you bought your hoggs from they should tell you what treatments they have had and if fluke is on their land,then you can narrow down what product to use .May i advise take a fresh sample of scour in a plastic bag to your vet and they will be able to tell you which parasites are there then you can buy the correct product.

[Fleecewife]

Our hens free range in the sheep fields - like CornishFarmer's they don't stick to the orchard.  Theoretically there is a chance of poultry passing on coccidiosis to sheep but we haven't found that in 16 years.  How much of an impact they have on the sheeps wormcount I don't know - it's low here anyway (zero at last faecal egg count) with many older ewes being resistant to worms. I suppose I could experiment by comparing the fields across the road where the hens don't go - but they had a zero worm count over there too.  What hens do do with their scratching is to hasten the breakdown of sheep droppings so the pastures are not knee deep in sheep sh**e.  They also hunt down those horrible clegs which tear your skin off in strips.

Poultry can apparently get worms from eating earthworms - obviously they don't become infested with the species of earthworms they are eating, but those must be host to other species of stomach or intestinal worms which can affect the hens.  So it is worth worming them, but isn't it difficult when they are free range    Does anyone have any tips on worming free range hens?

[Fieldfare]

Hi all- thanks again for the comments. I have found the following resource which might be useful to others looking into this- very interesting http://www.defra.gov.uk/foodfarm/farmanimal/diseases/control/documents/scops-technical-manual-0903.pdf


Having listened to you folks and read around I am having the droppings tested by a parasitologist friend to see what baddies are in there and then will seek vet advice as to decide what to do (seems like there are a few options- each with their own pros and cons- seems like the best options are not about erradication- but more about reduction and immunity of the sheep and reducing immunity of the parasites to chemicals). Certainly despite the scour in the one they are all looking fit and healthy- and very active. I like the option of just treating the one with symptoms- the others must have them but have some immunity (this option I see has some validity). I note that as it (they) have tapeworms I may need to use praziquantel (anyone used this?). Will discuss with the vet (5L is the smallest option for this anywhere I look).

I'm quite sure getting my hens 'following' the sheep will have some benefit in reducing re-infection (I'm pretty sure, Fleecewife, that yours will be eating shed eggs etc. so maybe this i shelping in your low worm counts). Incidentally I have free-ranged my hens for years  and have never had the need to worm-I know that they do shed worm eggs- but proof, I guess that worms don't always overwhelm (these are Light sussex, welsummer and black-rock crosses)- so on this I would say only worm if there are symptoms.

[waterhouse]

When it comes to medicating I like to ask a vet because I can get free advice in exchange for the odd arm and leg when something goes wrong.  And my vet's receptionist keeps sheep and has been really helpful!

Free advice included a spreadsheet of wormers.  I counted 35 different wormers using 10 different active ingredients, sometime in combination.  There are 30 that wack nematodes but only 12 for tapeworm (7 of which use Albinzole).  You either RTFM, all of them, or ask a vet who knows his/her favourites for your area.

[shep53]

Praziquantel seems to only be in one product LEVITAPE ok have used,but you will never use 5 lt .As waterhouse said benzimidazoles (white wormers ) will do the same job PANACUR was in 1lt.Can you not ask the supplier of your sheep or a friendly farmer for 1 or 4 doses ,big amounts may date expire before you can use.

[shep53]

You can buy panacur in 250ml bottles for about £12 on the net