[gavo]

Having seen out boys riding each other IT IS most definately sexual on many an occasion unless todgers and cream isn't sexual.

[Anke]

We have raised entire males for meat successfully without any taint or similar, and I have found they squabble a lot less than if we have girls only... but I always have either all girls or all boys, as I only have one ark. I don't breed them either.

As pigs can be grown to good slaughter weight within 6 months I would personally not see any need for castration, as long as you can separate them out from the girls early on.

[Hilarysmum]

I believe there is a new EU rule coming into being next year that bans castration at any age without the use of an anaesthetic.  Has anyone else read of this

[janeislay]

Same as tail docking, teeth clipping and nose ringing - they are all classed as mutilation and un-neccessary unless on a case by case basis for health reasons.

What about lambs ?  Is castrating them to be banned ?  I know a number of breeders don't do it early enough and this causes more suffering than necessary.

[robert waddell]

yes the boar taint could run and run it is my preference to castrate males not required for breeding as we can detect the taint and if we can others can and do detect it. it does exist
now this farm assured scheme will not include bullocks and castrated tup lambs then ,or is it only pigs???
TUDFUL TAMWORTHS as gavo has pointed out and we have observed the riding is sexual(penis out with penetration and semen over the lead pig (sometimes there was a row of them) ) now if that is not sexual one of us is wrong
as to the EU  rilling once again Brittan toes the line to the Brussels rule makers
when i was at college all male pigs were castrated i can see how they are not  now if there is a cough at one end of the farrowing shed by the time it gets to the other end it has developed into galloping lurgie

[supplies for smallholders]

Oh dear....

I didn't mean to start a castration war....

Just pointing out that some of the "often viewed as cruel and mean" commercial producers often have better welfare standards imposed on them than smallholders, who can currently do as they please, and as they have always done it.

On the subject of lambs, I'm not aware of any new rules coming in ref castration, but in my humble view, applying a castration ring to a lamb is far less painfull than lopping them off with a scalpel without anesthetic at a few hours old.

As my previous post said, we have taken entire male saddlebacks to way over 6 months with no trace of boar taint at all.

Thanks

[Fowgill Farm]

Lillian
Don't wish to upset you but from your comments i sumise you are one of our more mature contributors and perhaps have or have kept pigs commercially. I have found it tends to be the mature generation and commercial keepers who have experiences of boar taint which as you rightly say very much can occur. We don't castrate our boars but try to ensure they are kept apart from gilts and go to the butcher before 28 wks (did have a mishap and some went at 31wks once but tasted gorgeous and well fatty!). The other factor seems to be stress at killing which i have heard can cause taint as it increases the flow of adrenalin in the pig prior to killing which stays in the tissue and causes the taint.
I would suspect that the majority of people on here do as i do and ensure a stress free trip to the abbattoir and so have not come across taint.
As for the EU don't get me started !!!!
best Mandy

[robert waddell]

mature yes but depends on the definition of mature
no never kept pigs commercially
the best way to detect if your pig was stressed is when you are cutting it up stress spots basically spots of congelled blood in the carcase
once you are aware of what boar taint is by smell you will detect it at cafes restaurants and mobile burger vans

[Fowgill Farm]

Definition of mature:
If like me you remeber a time before supermarkets dominated, no such thing as MaccyDees (Though there were Wimpy's), milk came in glass bottles from the milkman, bread came in waxed paper, power cuts and going to school in fluroescent armbands coz they didn't change the clocks one winter! and when sixpence bought a bag of crisps & 2 fruit salad chews and fleecy clothes hadn't been invented, you wore jumpers your Nan had knitted!!
 
Hows that!
Mandy 

[robert waddell]

not bad but the new musical express was less than 5p
petrol three and fourpence a gallon  leyland tiger buses no cabs on tractors  tractor heaters were an ex army grey coat  100 gallons of red diesel was £10 children could cycle on the roads safely sex was safe motorsport was dangerous(and not the other way around )only 3 channels on the TV(if your older only 2 channels)you watched a film on TV or the cinema used to listen to the telephone wires singing sweet shops were somebody's front room               i remember it as if it were yesterday

[OhLaLa]

Threepenny bits
Hot pants
Milk during school breaktime
Vesta Currys


Sorry, off topic I know... 

[janeislay]

Only three channels on TV     

There wasn't such a thing in my young days   

[Tudful Tamworths]

Whether you agree with it or not, looks like a ban is on the way:

http://www.pigprogress.net/news/eu-banning-piglet-castration-by-2018-6786.html

[supplies for smallholders]

Currently :

From Defra:

The Welfare of Farmed Animals (England)
(Amendment) Regulations 2003 (S.I. 2003 No. 299),
Schedule 6, Part II, paragraphs 22 and 23 (2) state
that:
22.Male pigs may be castrated provided the means
employed do not involve tearing of tissues.
23.(2) If castration is carried out after the seventh
day of life it shall only be performed by a
veterinary surgeon in accordance with the
provisions of the Protection of Animals
(Anaesthetics) Act 1954.

From Farm Assurance Standards (Red Tractor):

AM.1.1 K Castration is not permitted. (PG.AM.1.1)

[oaklandspigs]

Defra site out of date (not unusual!) - The Welfare of Farmed Animals (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2003 were revoked by the Welfare of Farmed Animals Regulations 2007, and the section on castration moved to the The Mutilations (Permitted Procedures) (England) Regulations 2007.  This states in schedule 3.1

1. Castration
The method used must not involve the tearing of tissues.
An anaesthetic and additional prolonged analgesia must be administered where the animal is aged 7 days or over.

Sorry just being pedantic - apologies SfS - plaese forgive me !