[r.ewe.sheepish]

Hello everyone hope you all had a fantastic xmas and new year,as you can probably tell i'm new on here so here go's

  I'm the youngest of 3 sons and take part in the running of a 300 acre dairy farm and so have a certain degree of knowledge about grass management milk production and all general stock duties. My problem starts now as the Mrs and i have come to the conclusion that we have to do a bit of hobby farming,the mother in law has 10 acres of ground thats not intensively farmed and looks after 3 ponies all year with a crop of hay made every year which to be fair isn't bad stuff. We decided to look at sheep as a way of managing this ground and earning there own keep whilst providing a bit of money so we can pay the central heating bill each year
 If possible i'd like some advice as i openly admit the only time i've ever looked at a sheep is with mint sauce.
The idea i had worked on was between 10-20 sheep a breed that doesn't decide to escape every 10 minutes,A breed that is good with children as i have two daughters (suggestions please) and how many lambs to expect from the breed of your choice.

i'd also like to know about licks and mins if necessary and also the best wormers and wether people still dip

  I no this sounds odd but its been a hard day so forgive me if this doesn't make sence 

 Yours sincerely hugo and morwenna


           

[waterhouse]

Not too many hard questions then!

There is a separate forum for sheep where this ought to go.  But choice of sheep is impossible to advise because every breed has its group of enthusiasts who will hear no evil of their favourite breed.  Mountain sheep are smaller but jump higher and are escape artists.  Lowland sheep tend to be chunkier so there's more to wrestle.  And horns are either useful handles or a pain in the rear when struck with them.  We got some commercial crosses to learn on in our first year and then settled on our breed of choice.  The National Sheep Assoc website gives some stats on sizes, and each breed also has a website.  None of them tell you the downsides!  if you bucket train them then they're friendly but 60kg of sheep shoving her head in the bucket will still knock smaller people flying. 

No you don't need to dip sheep but they still get scab (which is easily treated but really bad for the sheep).  They also get fly strike, foot problems and worms so make friends with a vet.  There is a recent thread about wormers in the sheep section.  This isn't the time of year for fly strike but my view is Clik for a general preventative treatment and Crovect as a specific if you get struck. 

Then there's lambing...

[HappyHippy]

Hello and welcome to TAS 
I can't give you much advice with sheep I'm afraid  The only thing I've ever needed to know about them is they make it their sole mission to die  I'll stick to my pigs 
But you'll get lots of good advice and, as waterhouse says, everyone will tell you that their preferred breed is the best ! 
Good luck and do let us know what you decide
Karen

[faith0504]

hi and welcome from moray 

[r.ewe.sheepish]

 Thankyou everyone for your kind word and advice we had 1500 pigs in the 70s. never again as dad said it used to break his heart when he made friends with them and then sent them on a wagon to the abbatoir or welshpool mkt.
 As it comes to sheep i want something thats going to be clued to the ground and that grows like mad if lambing is anything like calving i should be pretty good at it and learn very quickly

[Rosemary]

Hi and welcome from Carnoustie 

Waterhouse is right - every sheepkeeper has his / her own favourites. We have Ryelands and would recommend you have a look at them. They are very docile, non-escapee sheep built for comfort not speed. They look like polar bear if white or teddy bears if coloured like ours. Our website is www.rosedeanryelands.co.uk but the main breed site is the Ryeland Flock Book Society

[darkbrowneggs]

Hi there and welcome from Sue in Worcestershire

I only have poultry and pets at present, but did keep Black Welsh Mountain for many years. 

I chose them because they are small, and reasonably easy for a small woman to handle, I could turn the ewes fairly easily, though I never turned the rams.

They are supposed to be fly strike resistant, and I think they are a bit better as the wool is wiry, and not so absorbent as some fleece, though I would still use chemicals at the high risk times of early summer and warm autumn weather.  Also they aren't supposed to get foot problems, and I never had any trouble with any of mine in all the years I had them

They don't need feeding (apart from the ewes early in the year if they are twinning) and make very good eating, with small joints of well flavoured almost fat free meat with a high meat to bone ratio.

I kept the flock pure, so they were easy lambers, and I rarely lost lambs, though of course it does happen.  I let my ewe lambs breed if they wanted to, and often they would have a single, which if it was large could be more troublesome, wheras the ewes almost invariable had doubles with the occasional triplets (I found triples ran in families)

The lambs are hardy and quick to their feet, and the ewes are very good mothers with plenty of milk.  I had them bucket trained, so even though they were not pets they would come to the call if I wanted to move them from field to field.  My fences were not of the best in places, but I very rarely had any even try to get out (I think good feed and plenty of it helps keep them at home)

I sold the flock of a couple of years ago, but if I was looking to start again I would choose the same.  However I sold my surplus girls privately to the pedigree market and ate the boys I couldn't sell, and I would think if you are going more commercial they would be bad sellers in a general auction ring.

If I was choosing another breed I might look at the ones that don't need sheaing - is it Wiltshire Horns, as again the private market might be quite good for those.

All the best
Sue

[Fleecewife]

Hello and welcome sheepish 
You don't say if you specifically want to use your sheep for meat.  An alternative is to breed pedigree sheep to sell as breeding stock.  Any which don't come up to standard are eaten, but this gives you two ways of making money from your sheep. In addition, pedigree sheep can be shown, and this is a great hobby for children, especially if you choose certain easy to handle breeds.
I have to say that in this I don't agree with Happy Hippy when she says sheep just live to die (sorry Karen ) - as a stockman you will know that if you ignore symptoms in any animal you are asking for trouble, and sheep perhaps need more of an eagle eye than most, but in general they are easy to raise. Look at your pastures from a sheep's point of view and you will spot potential dangers such as loops of baler twine to get strangled in, fast streams to drown in, poisonous plants to eat, poor fencing to let you through onto the road, or to let roaming dogs in to attack you.  You get the picture I'm sure.
I keep rare breed sheep and so of course I would recommend these for your venture.  Mine are Primitives, which have the advantage of being fairly self reliant, they have good feet, they lamb easily, they prefer pasture which is well supplied with 'herbs'  ie more than just grass species, they taste superior to the commercial breeds, with smaller joints but superior meat quality, breeding stock doesn't sell for high prices but then the initial purchase price is not going to leave you out of pocket either, and most breeds can be shown for example Shetlands which are a very manageable size for your daughters to handle - they also have superb fleece for everyone to learn to spin  (I had to get that bit in as I'm a hand spinner).  I keep multi-horned Hebrideans and Soays - neither breed is renowned for ease of handling, but we have no problems as ours are very tame.  Shetlands on the other hand are so easy to handle and are beautifully appealing to look at.  Stock is readily available throughout Britain and there are plenty of breeders to give advice when you need it.
My last point is that you will want something a bit different in your 10 acres - not just any old sheep, but something striking to catch the eye, and something which appeals specifically to you and your family.

[bsadevon]

Hi Hugo and Morwenna and welcome - am new here myself everyone seems helpful and friendly.

Wish you well with your sheep enterprise - been a while since I've had much to do with them.

A few questions?
Re - breed choice are you after temperament / wool / meat.
what is the soil like where you plan to keep them clay/sandy etc. (Check for foot rot)
You mentioned haymaking is it permanent pasture.
Deep rooted grasses/ clovers should bring up mineral etc (Still might need supplements)
Are you planning to run other stock with the sheep.

Keep us posted on progress. Tim

[Fleecewife]

A bit more   - if you buy slightly fewer sheep than you think you will need, this gives you the opportunity to keep back some of your best ewe lambs as breeding stock.  The Primitives generally go on breeding well beyond the 7 years average of commercial types (I am breeding a Hebridean ewe who will be 15 when she lambs in April, but I would expect many ewes to keep lambing until 12 or so).
Primitives are slower to 'fatten' (they don't get fat, so to finish is a better expression) and are usually about 16 months when they go for slaughter - this gives the denser, tastier meat I mentioned before.
In general you will get about 175% lambing from many Primitives, depending on your grass quality, altitude and latitude, bloodlines and so on, maybe closer to 185% for Shetlands. In 15 years of breeding sheep, we have only had to pull one Soay lamb and I think 3 Hebrideans, whereas when we kept Jacobs, they just about all needed assistance. For fatter lambs but still with good meat quality you can cross breed.  We have used a narrowish Texel tup with good results, but in fact the pelvis of primitive ewes is proportionally wider than that of commercial breeds, so they can deliver quite big crossbred lambs just as easily as smaller purebred lambs.
Sheep only escape if your stock fencing is not good or there are gaps around or under gates.  We have double fenced our land, with hedging between the fences - this is for biosecurity but does ensure that tups don't jump out in the breeding season in search of variety.
Sheep need grass and water most of the year, with a mineral bucket in the winter months, ad lib hay in winter and some bought concentrates in the 6 weeks leading up to lambing and for early lactation - just how much depends on your chosen breed.  They need to be shorn annually - no problem for someone used to cattle, to have their feet trimmed as necessary - again just how often depends on breed, whether you land is wet or has plenty of rocks - black hoof is harder than white so tends to get fewer problems.
Lambs are more susceptible to worms but older sheep tend to be resistant to a worm burden.  It used to be recommended that you worm lambs sometimes as often as every 6 weeks then move them onto clean ground - this is now seen to contribute to wormer resistance so is not recommended.
Some people give an 8disease vaccination routinely, plus Blue Tongue. Only large flocks are dipped as you need a full certification to use OPs, but various pour-ons are available for smaller numbers.  The danger times for fly strike are May to October, again depending on where you live and the weather in any particular year.
Some breeds will get quite daggy so a pair of dagging shears is essential to keep their back ends clean year round.

[Meh!]

Hi there,

sheep are hard ot learn about, there seems to be so many different things.

I have 2 pets from lasr spring but would like more this year.
They are beltex and are fabulous with kids and rarely try to escape but maybe because they are pets!

You will love sheep!

[waterhouse]

I'm not sure how sheep got their death-wish reputation.  They are no worse than other livestock but they're all different from each other so as someone accustomed to horses it was a shock to get a fly-strike (really horrid) followed by a nasty dose of sheep scab.  There seem to be more regular pharmaceuticals needed with sheep than horses, but they don't seem to injure themselves like horses do with bites, kicks and scrapes, and their digestive system is far better arranged.