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Author Topic: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate  (Read 3528 times)

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Given that TAS is going through a quiet period, please take time to read through this lot.  Some of you will already have your copy if you signed the original petition, against the huge barbaric mass slaughter of whales and dolphins 'for the spectacle' in the Faroe Islands.  Consider that those of you who eat fish are probably benefitting the Faroes who supply us with fish as part of the UK-Faroes Trade deal.

Spoiler alert - no change in Gov policy.

I don't consider this to be a political post, rather it is about animal welfare and climate change mitigation.

<<<  Parliament debated the petition you signed – “Suspend trade agreement with Faroe Islands until all whale & dolphin hunts end”

Watch the debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gd9QBpBwwA

Read the transcript: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2022-07-11/debates/7FA9E7DD-870E-491A-8DAC-6F25F2F6C631/DolphinAndWhaleHuntingFaroeIslands

Read the research: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cdp-2022-0135/

The petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/597171   >>>

« Last Edit: July 14, 2022, 12:47:47 pm by Fleecewife »
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doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
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Re: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2022, 01:27:47 pm »
Do you by any chance know what the Scottish Government are saying about this, if anything?
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Steph Hen

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Angus Scotland.
Re: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2022, 10:33:18 pm »
A quota of 500 animals has been set after last year’s record hunt which most seem to have agreed was excessive. 500 still seems like a lot for subsistence hunting and cultural continuation as claimed. I struggle with the modernisation of equipment against the claim of tradition. It feels uncomfortable.
 
China is busy doing plenty of bad things to animals and people. We aren’t doing a great job of boycotting their produce. I would argue because the media isn’t currently stirring us up about it. But there’s plenty going on there, the likes of which haunt me.

I don’t like that they’re killing these animals but it’s not for me to stop a community doing something they’ve done for generations. If they go at it with a clear conscience. My lens is not their lens. I fail to buy all my goods from only ethical and sustainable sources. Britain as a whole certainly hasn’t boycotted every other unethical trader and nation and community.

I’m not sure what we do is very much better - We try not to upset our animals 99% of the time. Sometimes we do it deliberately, stress them out to move them, tag, slaughter, trim feet, to pull them out of fences and ditches (which we put there). My mum watching farming programs says when she  helped on her grandfathers farm - animals mostly gave birth by themselves whereas today loads seem to need assistance. She says it’s a travesty that so many mothers need assistance now. Same with all these dog breeds with problems.
The wild harvested animals live their lives free of hunters’ influence apart from the final hours of their lives. I believe some deer are farmed in an almost comparable way - they live extensively with little human interaction apart from receiving winter forage and the odd bit of care then are herded into a smaller field one day and those for slaughter are picked off by a riffle.

I don’t understand this whale/dolphin cull, I don’t like it. I wouldn’t be eating it as I assumed heavy metals like mercury accumulate in their tissue.
I don’t understand the fur lust of trappers in Alaska and Canada. Some of the stuff Mongolian herders do seems pretty brutal too. I’ve seen some videos and articles but I don’t feel it’s my place to comment on other cultures simply because the media has flagged them into the lime light and says it’s terrible.

Also Fleecewife, what is the climate change mitigation factor please?

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2022, 12:52:16 am »
Do you by any chance know what the Scottish Government are saying about this, if anything?

I don't know, but the proposal came from a Scottish MP.  Have you heard any mention of it?  I'll see what I can find out, if haymaking allows  :)
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2022, 01:39:09 am »
A quota of 500 animals has been set after last year’s record hunt which most seem to have agreed was excessive. 500 still seems like a lot for subsistence hunting and cultural continuation as claimed. I struggle with the modernisation of equipment against the claim of tradition. It feels uncomfortable.
 
China is busy doing plenty of bad things to animals and people. We aren’t doing a great job of boycotting their produce. I would argue because the media isn’t currently stirring us up about it. But there’s plenty going on there, the likes of which haunt me.

I don’t like that they’re killing these animals but it’s not for me to stop a community doing something they’ve done for generations. If they go at it with a clear conscience. My lens is not their lens. I fail to buy all my goods from only ethical and sustainable sources. Britain as a whole certainly hasn’t boycotted every other unethical trader and nation and community.

I’m not sure what we do is very much better - We try not to upset our animals 99% of the time. Sometimes we do it deliberately, stress them out to move them, tag, slaughter, trim feet, to pull them out of fences and ditches (which we put there). My mum watching farming programs says when she  helped on her grandfathers farm - animals mostly gave birth by themselves whereas today loads seem to need assistance. She says it’s a travesty that so many mothers need assistance now. Same with all these dog breeds with problems.
The wild harvested animals live their lives free of hunters’ influence apart from the final hours of their lives. I believe some deer are farmed in an almost comparable way - they live extensively with little human interaction apart from receiving winter forage and the odd bit of care then are herded into a smaller field one day and those for slaughter are picked off by a riffle.

I don’t understand this whale/dolphin cull, I don’t like it. I wouldn’t be eating it as I assumed heavy metals like mercury accumulate in their tissue.
I don’t understand the fur lust of trappers in Alaska and Canada. Some of the stuff Mongolian herders do seems pretty brutal too. I’ve seen some videos and articles but I don’t feel it’s my place to comment on other cultures simply because the media has flagged them into the lime light and says it’s terrible.

Also Fleecewife, what is the climate change mitigation factor please?

I don't think that just because other countries are doing 'bad things' to animals that we should not have an opinion on a country which is our near neighbour.  The UK has expressed an opinion on fox hunting which is now banned, years ago bear baiting was banned, bull fighting, dog fighting, badger baiting, and in general cruelty to animals, deliberate or by lack of action is prosecuted in our country. The Faroes actually have a picture of the beaches where they hack hundreds of animals to death with knives on their tourist brochures, making it a tourist attraction.  In the past killing whales and dolphins was an annual hunt to provide winter supplies to keep the population fed. The Grind as it's called was carried out by fishermen using rowing boats and some basic equipment, bludgeoning and hacking the animals until they eventually died.  That was gruesome but there was at least a meaning behind it.  Now it seems they use motor boats to round up vast quantities of animals to kill just for the fun of it.  I think we absolutely all should have an opinion on this.  Claiming that this is tradition, when they find it hard to sell on the meat for people to eat, partly because it's toxic and partly because many young people in the Faroes are very much against the slaughter is an empty claim.  We don't eat dolphin or whale meat here because like horse meat it is against our culture.  What we do do is because of a trade agreement with the Faroes is we eat fish caught by those same fishermen, thus supporting their economy.  The Faroes have a better standard of living by far then we do, so don't imagine they are on the bread line.   Yes their Government has set a quota of 500 dolphins to be killed every year.  Five Hundred!  I don't eat Tuna because some dolphins can be accidentally caught in fishing nets - both Tuna and Dolphins are highly intelligent creatures, as are whales. Making them suffer the horrible fear and pain as they are rounded up, beached and killed over the course of many hours is unthinkable to me.

Steph, the climate change relevance is to do with the balances in the oceans.  Our oceans are warming and becoming more acid, there is a danger that the currents we rely on might stop or change direction.  Our seas are being polluted and over fished which leads to further imbalances.  Our world oceans are one huge ecosystem. if you remove or destroy any part of that ecosystem, in this case large numbers of whales and dolphins, then that will add to all the imbalances caused by other factors. Whales in particular travel vast distances around the Earth, dropping faeces into the water, which in turn are a food source for the small species that many fish and other cetaceans rely on for food. When a whale carcase sinks to the ocean floor it provides food for countless species.
I am surprised to discover that there has been no assessment of whale or dolphin numbers in the waters around the Faroes carried out since 1997, 25 years ago and yet the islands claim that their hunts are sustainable, with no evidence at all other than wishful thinking.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2022, 01:47:09 am by Fleecewife »
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
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Re: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2022, 11:40:32 am »
could the petition be reworded and restarted?
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow: where 2nd-home owners rule !
Re: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2022, 02:38:34 pm »
It's barbaric no matter how few/many are killed and goes to show how cruel mankind can be. Frankly the Islanders should be ashamed of themselves for carrying on their traditional mass slaughters when, I don't care what they say, it is not an essential food/survival thing. The Faroe Islands has a high GDP per capita and relatively low unemployment from what I've read.  It is sickening that these very intelligent creatures are slaughtered en mass awaiting their fate while swimming in the blood of others.  There are laws largely replicated throughout European States that prevent the culling of animals in distressing circumstances. Why are the Islanders allowed to get away with it? And how the Islanders can relish such an appalling act of cruelty is simply beyond my ken.  I hope they choke on their "seafood" stew !

"Mummy, these fish fingers are chewy and don't taste like fish at all and do we really have to have fish fingers almost every other day?" ... "My little one, these are very special Faroes chewy fish-fingers and we have 2 freezers full of them so eat up and I promise we can have Mummy's very special Faroes seafood stew instead tomorrow" ... "Well, if I have to, but can I go to Islia's tomorrow after school:  she says her Mum is cooking non-chewy Findus fish fingers tomorrow, wherever Findus is."
« Last Edit: July 17, 2022, 02:42:58 pm by arobwk »

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2022, 11:52:33 pm »
could the petition be reworded and restarted?

I think it was debated at absolutely the wrong time, with the PM upheaval going on.  The debate achieved nothing, as if they can now say 'ok so we've debated it, the minister says everything's fine as it is, so that's the end of the matter'.  I don't know if a certain amount of time has to pass before a similar topic can be debated again, but it must surely be so.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2022, 12:02:01 am »
It's barbaric no matter how few/many are killed and goes to show how cruel mankind can be. Frankly the Islanders should be ashamed of themselves for carrying on their traditional mass slaughters when, I don't care what they say, it is not an essential food/survival thing. The Faroe Islands has a high GDP per capita and relatively low unemployment from what I've read.  It is sickening that these very intelligent creatures are slaughtered en mass awaiting their fate while swimming in the blood of others.  There are laws largely replicated throughout European States that prevent the culling of animals in distressing circumstances. Why are the Islanders allowed to get away with it? And how the Islanders can relish such an appalling act of cruelty is simply beyond my ken.  I hope they choke on their "seafood" stew !

"Mummy, these fish fingers are chewy and don't taste like fish at all and do we really have to have fish fingers almost every other day?" ... "My little one, these are very special Faroes chewy fish-fingers and we have 2 freezers full of them so eat up and I promise we can have Mummy's very special Faroes seafood stew instead tomorrow" ... "Well, if I have to, but can I go to Islia's tomorrow after school:  she says her Mum is cooking non-chewy Findus fish fingers tomorrow, wherever Findus is."

Thanks Arobwk, I thought far more people would be interested in this topic and as horrified as you and I are at the mass murder of so many intelligent animals, well, of any animals at all in such a cruel slaughter.  Perhaps smallholding somehow causes people to think of the death of animals in a more accepting way?  Perhaps this also explains why there were not 10 million signatures on the petition instead of only just over 100,000 - people have had their shock and horror reaction wiped out.
They won't choke on their seafood stew because only 20% of Faroese are actually eating it. Probably the rest goes for dog food  :furious:
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

ramon

  • Joined Feb 2014
Re: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2022, 10:10:32 am »
Fleecewife wrote: The UK has expressed an opinion on fox hunting which is now banned


Unfortunately the regulations currently in place are not fit for purpose and fox hunting with hounds still goes on in my part of Scotland. Although I have banned them from crossing my land neighboring farms consider it a traditional sport and allow it to continue.


Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2022, 05:40:17 pm »
Fleecewife wrote: The UK has expressed an opinion on fox hunting which is now banned


Unfortunately the regulations currently in place are not fit for purpose and fox hunting with hounds still goes on in my part of Scotland. Although I have banned them from crossing my land neighboring farms consider it a traditional sport and allow it to continue.

What do the authorities have to say on the matter?

In the '50s in E Anglia, after the local hunt had yet again trashed three fields of standing barley, my father stood with his shotgun and threatened to shoot the dogs if they came in again.  It stopped them coming back but we were ostracised of course.  It's bad when someone has to defend themselves with a gun. Now of course my father would have had the law on his side.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

ramon

  • Joined Feb 2014
Re: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2022, 01:39:14 am »
The hunt has to register the event with the police. They do have people with guns along the road for show but the hounds are usually out on the hills some miles away so they are not used just to flush out foxes. I have had discussions with the police but they have little power to act and video evidence is needed for a police prosecution. This is almost impossible  to get as the hunt covers such a large area well away from roads. The people who take part know they are acting illegally but think, correctly, that they can get away with it in remote areas. I am sure the same happens in other areas of Scotland.  The law needs to be changed so that organized hunts such as this must have independent witnesses available.




SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
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Re: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2022, 04:23:30 pm »
Fleecewife wrote: The UK has expressed an opinion on fox hunting which is now banned


Unfortunately the regulations currently in place are not fit for purpose and fox hunting with hounds still goes on in my part of Scotland. Although I have banned them from crossing my land neighboring farms consider it a traditional sport and allow it to continue.

It was never totally banned.  It is banned in many circumstances and more tightly proscribed in others.
Anyone who read the actual Burns Report (as I did), it found that in some circumstances (mainly some uplands and forestry where lamping was impractical), controlled hunting with hounds was the most practical and humane method of control. 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 04:43:01 pm by SallyintNorth »
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ramon

  • Joined Feb 2014
Re: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2022, 09:55:04 pm »
I believe the Burns report applied to England and Wales although something similar was conducted in Scotland.
Legislation in Scotland allows flushing out foxes to guns which is why the local hunt has guns for show along the road. No guns are however anywhere near where the hounds are roaming. Having seen foxes killed by hounds it cannot be described as humane but I have to say that when it comes to fox control the local hunt is generally not very successful. When a problem fox has taken livestock here lamping has been far more effective.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Mass slaughter of cetaceans in the Faroe islands - Gov debate
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2022, 02:02:56 am »
Our neighbour's boys used to go lamping to control foxes but I honestly cannot see an increase in numbers now they have grown up and don't do it anymore. We have had trouble with foxes dumped by folk from Edinburgh and Glasgow who think leaving a city animal out in an unknown bit of countryside with no bins to raid might be good animal welfare, but other than that we just don't see rural foxes here (we do hear vixens in the season though)
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

 

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