[M Warren]

Hi We have two orphan lambs - aptly names skinny and fatty.  "Fatty" drinks his bottle milk in about 3 minutes. But "skinny" is a slow drinker, not a proper suckler and stops a lot - I've tried all different types of teats etc but he just doesn't have the hang of things.  They both eat a little creep, hay, straw and nibble at things generally when i let them out for short spells in small paddock area.  They spend most of their time in the barn and are about 3 weeks old.  Skinny won't drink the recommended amount of lamlac for age but is generally doing fine apart from being skinnier that the other.  I would point out they are both triplets and their siblings are of a similar build but just bigger as with the mums.  We brought "skinny" in as he was running around trying to feed off other ewes and generally scavanging so we concluded the Ewe could unfortunately not look after the 3 despite first impressions.  The second ie "fatty" from another triplet was brought in to keep "skinny" company.  We are sticking to little and often for feeds for "skinny" as I suspect he has an underdeveloped rumen and he will eventually catch up.  I did wonder whether putting out an adlib milk feeder would be better or worse than bottle feeding given the difference in feeding speed they both have?  I am concerned that "fatty" will get bloat and "skinny" will go hungry. They both come over for a bottle feed but just have different levels of keenness.

Any recommendations for or thoughts about my theory on a slow developing rumen?
PS he does sometimes gurgle a fair bit when drinking and I am firm but not forcing when it comes to feeding.
He also pees mid way through a feed (when having a break) and he poos ok too.

Thanks in advance

[Buttermilk]

I use ad lib cold lamlac for my cade lambs.  This year a small triplet was a dainty drinker right through to weaning and only drank about ⅔ what lambs have drunk in previous years.  She has been a good creep eater once she got started.  She is smaller than her siblings still at 12 weeks old.

[Anke]

If you only have the two I would stick to bottles, as you will know exactly how much each of them drinks. Just safer and you will spot any issues much quicker.


And cleaning out the ad-lib feeder every night is quite a slow job compared to quickly rinsing out two bottles...


If you are concerned "fatty" will get bloat, you could just make up a slightly more dilute Lamlac solution for him.

[SallyintNorth]

They don't digest milk in the rumen, but in the abomasum.  The rumen is for digesting fibrous (plant) material.  The rumen is not fully functional until 6 weeks and not fully developed until 8 weeks.

If milk gets into the rumen, that's when you get bloat and other problems.  (So don't increase the volume of Fatty's feeds if you do dilute them, that would make it more likely to overflow the abomasum.) 

You may be able to help Skinny by making sure of the following :

- his head should be at just above the horizontal (nose slightly higher than the back of his jaw but not as tilted as 45 degrees), with his neck extended slightly but not exaggeratedly extended upwards.  A lot of people feed with the lamb's head almost vertical and their neck fully extended.  If the lamb does not have a fully developed oesophogeal reflex, or the bottle is emitting milk faster than the lamb can swallow, this can actually be dangerous, and lead to bloat, pneumonia and other troubles. 

- some lambs feed well with you and them both stood up, some seem to get on better with you sat and them placed across your knees, with the back legs hanging down.  I am not a fan of cuddling a lamb against your chest to feed it, with the exception that you sometimes have to do that in the beginning to get it to feel secure enough to feed.  But once it's feeding, I shift to it standing on all fours, or if it won't do that, placed across my lap with the back legs hanging. 

It's all about getting the angles and flow rate right, making sure the milk stays in the oesophageal groove which directs it only into the abomasum, and doesn't get into the rumen or the lungs. 

[SallyintNorth]

As to how to manage little and often for Skinny but Fatty drinking faster, I am honestly not sure what the problem is with bottle feeding?  Take what each lamb should have for this feed in one bottle per lamb, take Fatty's bottle away when he's drunk it all, keep on longer so Skinny finishes his.  If Fatty is a nuisance, lift Skinny out of the pen to have his feed.

I have never done ad lib milk but my understanding is that the whole point is that the feeder is never empty, so once they are used to that, each lamb self-regulates.  So in theory it would work for these two, but as others have said, it would be a lot of washing and so on for just two.  Unless there is a reason you want or need to move away from several bottle feeds a day sooner than Skinny is ready to have fewer, larger feeds, it's probably not worth the hassle - unless I am missing something completely! 

[M Warren]

Thanks for all your insights - there is no issue with bottle feeding - i had been hoping that Skinny would drink more if it was just out for him to have as and when.  Obviously if Fatty has drunk it all then that defeats the object.

I may have been tilting his head back a little too far sometimes so I wonder if some has gone into his rumen.  How would I know and is there a fix?

thanks

[twizzel]

I think ad lib is always better, little and often. You can make a cheap ad lib feeder with a minisuckler kit and an old lick bucket with lid. Cold milk and they’ll naturally not gorge as much as they would on warm. Ad lib, 1 lamb will drink about 2 litres per day.


Don’t dilute the milk either, the lamb will fill itself up but not get enough nutrients. Give them some creep and straw to nibble on- the straw will help the rumen develop better than hay.

[Anke]

If your lambs have been feeding fine so far for three weeks, just continue. It seems some people will try and tell you you need a degree qualification to bottle a lamb.... you don't. Once the know how the bottle works, they get themselves into the right position as soon as you show the bottle.


Bloat is much more likely when they take significantly more than a bottle's worth and the abomasum is full, so it "overflows" into the rumen.


If you stick to one bottle (500ml) max in any one feed you are highly unlikely to get bloat.

[M Warren]

Fatty normally gets 375ml 4 times a day but Skinny will only drink 100-200ml per sitting so it was the latter i was trying to improve on......

[SallyintNorth]

Thanks for all your insights - there is no issue with bottle feeding - i had been hoping that Skinny would drink more if it was just out for him to have as and when.  Obviously if Fatty has drunk it all then that defeats the object.

I may have been tilting his head back a little too far sometimes so I wonder if some has gone into his rumen.  How would I know and is there a fix?

thanks

If he's feeding and pooping, don't worry about what might have happened in the past.  I mentioned it because you had mentioned him gurgling, and it made me wonder if the milk was flowing in the groove okay.  Gurgling could indicate some fluid going the wrong way, either the lungs or the wrong stomach. 

[Anke]

Fatty normally gets 375ml 4 times a day but Skinny will only drink 100-200ml per sitting so it was the latter i was trying to improve on......

Best thing is to weigh them every few days... (using your human household scales and lifting the lamb up), so you get an idea how much they are putting on.


It is difficult to "make" a lamb/kid take more milk than they want to drink, and if he is still quite wee (as a spare triplet most likely would be), some will take quite a while to get up to a full bottle size... I don't feed more than 4x per day, and offering more feeds than that may not encourage him to drink more in one sitting. I would just continue as you do now, keep records of how much he gets each day (without panicking that he hasn't got enough), and you may find he will slowly improve. Offering nice hay is also really useful. My goat kids really like readigrass - if you have horses you may want to try some of that on the lambs.


 

[SallyintNorth]

Another thing that might stimulate his appetite, if you have any (or can blag a dose from a neighbouring farmer) is a squirt of Lamb Boost, Co-Late, or similar.  Just one squirt, once, a wee while before a feed.  Just might give him enough of a lift to go at the bottle with a bit more gusto.  But don't keep repeating it, whether it works or not.  Just a one-time thing.