[Fleecewife]

So, a crisis in the world, more fighting, killing and terror.
How will the people of Ukraine feed themselves? Suddenly the importance of growing your own food and not relying totally on imports to feed a country comes hurtling to the fore. We can see how quickly life changes from 'Na, they won't invade us' to 'Oh they're bombing us, but we're their neighbours  '.  No time to be prepared, no time to change the way you organise your life, no time to get in your meds, stock your store cupboards and too early in the season to plant your crops.
This is something we need to learn from in the UK, something we have clearly forgotten since WW2.

[Rosemary]

Indeed, I would like to see the Scottish Government pay far more attention to food security NOW and, in due course, energy security.

[SallyintNorth]

And this is one of the things that worries me about the move towards veganism in this country.  Vast swathes of the UK are best suited to growing grasses and other human-inedible plants and hence, meat and milk. And I would love to be disabused, but so far as I know, no-one has so much as offered a plan for growing a balanced plant-based diet sustainably in this country. 

[Fleecewife]

And this is one of the things that worries me about the move towards veganism in this country.  Vast swathes of the UK are best suited to growing grasses and other human-inedible plants and hence, meat and milk. And I would love to be disabused, but so far as I know, no-one has so much as offered a plan for growing a balanced plant-based diet sustainably in this country.

There is no plan.  Veganism in the UK necessarily relies on imports.  It's a diet for the modern world. But a vegan diet plus vegan lifestyle cannot be achieved today sustainably.  Take footwear:  Plastic shoes - all that oil  Clothing:  cotton clothes - all those fungicides, pesticides and water, water, water, even Organic production of cotton uses more water than rice I believe. Vegan food: grow your own but for all those who don't are they truly eating food raised according to vegan principles?  No animal manures, no insects or pests hurt in the process, no greenflies accidentally munched in their sarnies? All that no meat bacon, no meat burgers, no meat pulled pork (I kid you not), no meat chicken, no meat sausages, they are all made in factories using oil to operate machines and are in fact as bad for you as all the other hyper processed foods available at low cost.  It's just another fad like the must-have raised bed.

I somehow don't think that the people of Ukraine could give a cuss about whether their food is vegan, vegetarian or organic right now, as long as they can eat something.  Out the window will go all those specialist coffees and wines, and people will be desperate just to get clean water again.


Not schadenfreude, total concern.

[arobwk]

And this is one of the things that worries me about the move towards veganism in this country.  Vast swathes of the UK are best suited to growing grasses and other human-inedible plants and hence, meat and milk. And I would love to be disabused, but so far as I know, no-one has so much as offered a plan for growing a balanced plant-based diet sustainably in this country. 

Combine the over-hyped benefits of veganism (or just vegetarianism) with the UK drive for re-wilding and what does one have ?  A "home" diet of blackberries and a few hedgerow gleanings.  "Cleavers and nettle soup with cow parsley pepper anyone ?!" ... "What - no chips ?" ... "Sorry !"  Lol, but the "debate" about veganism is pointless unless one also gives up the idea of wide-scale re-wilding.  The Knepp Estate went for re-wilding with grazing;  the livestock being harvested for meat and bi-products (including body parts gleaned for very expensive pet-food items rather than for sausages no doubt).  They didn't bother with a pick-your-own blackberry and hazelnuts outlet as far as I know.   

(The above is not to ignore the insane situation in Ukraine and so many other places in the world where power politics have displaced their peoples and/or left them homeless, starving, thirsty and scared.)

[macgro7]

So, a crisis in the world, more fighting, killing and terror.
How will the people of Ukraine feed themselves? Suddenly the importance of growing your own food and not relying totally on imports to feed a country comes hurtling to the fore. We can see how quickly life changes from 'Na, they won't invade us' to 'Oh they're bombing us, but we're their neighbours  '.  No time to be prepared, no time to change the way you organise your life, no time to get in your meds, stock your store cupboards and too early in the season to plant your crops.
This is something we need to learn from in the UK, something we have clearly forgotten since WW2.

Ukraine (just like poland) has a perfect climate for growing cereals - they grow much better than in the UK, and because of that are much cheaper to produce. Same with potatoes, apples and many other things.
This is due to warmer summers.

Ukraine is still in much better situation then Syria or Yemen - they have cholera epidemic, drought for several years and famine. And at the same time are being bombed by Saudi Arabia. Yet we don't even talk about it 

I just hope that Putin hasn't got plans to invade more countries 😕
No idea what he's really planning to do!

[Fleecewife]

Well he's just announced the threat of NUCLEAR war.


It seems that many young Russians serving in the Army were told they were 'on manoeuvres' so the wee man knows his country will only do as he wants by trickery.


For all their big fields of grain, they still have to be sown, tended, harvested and distributed using infrastructure destroyed by war.  With such a good climate people can grow their own food as long as they have gardens and seeds. My concern is for people in the cities now being bombed.

[macgro7]

Scary stuff. Most people in the cities live in blocks of flats - which makes it even more risky

[Fleecewife]

Marsh Family song in support of Ukraine:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2YJg6_eQiU

[macgro7]

"This year, Ukraine is predicted to account for 12% of global wheat exports, 16% for corn, 18% for barley and 19% for rapeseed."

https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/ukraines-rising-role-grain-exports-complicates-impact-crisis-2022-01-26/

Those are percentage of GLOBAL GRAIN EXPORTS. That's massive!

[Fleecewife]

So who's going to be doing the harvesting, transport and sales while there's a war raging, the infrastructure has collapsed and people can't get money from the bank? They need more than bread, things like vegetables and meat, which all have to be grown, harvested, processed and distributed for sale.  I know Ukraine is a bread bowl in normal years, and has a good climate for farming, but I somehow expect those projected figures were written before the war started.
After only a week or so of war we are hearing of severe shortages in the shops, and the places people live are being blown apart, cooker and all. Women are leaving in their thousands but the men and women who are staying to fight must be fed.  An Army fights on its stomach and Putin will be trying to keep his supply lines open, as will the Ukrainian Army. It's how things happen in war and those women and children who don't get out who want to are very likely to find food hard to source.

[doganjo]

There will be very little food available in Ukraine itself by now.

Apart from anything else, Russian soldiers in that long convoy are now looting shops as they are 1. afraid to stay in their vehicles, and 2. short of food.

And as has been said the Ukraine army needs feeding first so they can attempt to save their country.

What of the babies and children, especially disabled ones.  I saw one child in a pushchair, apparently disabled, loaded up with their few possessions, mother struggling to push it closer to Poland, other children hanging onto the pram or her arms

All we can do is send money to as many charities as possible in the hope they can help

https://donation.dec.org.uk/ukraine-humanitarian-appeal

This is the joint charities appeal

Your local Development Council will probably have material goods and food going over by lorry
and there is an aid organisation to take animal foods over too - World Dog Alliance, and IFAW

[Fleecewife]

It says a lot for a country when its people take their animals with them when they flee. Lots of dogs but also cats.  I do wonder about keeping a loose cat stuffed down your coat all the way from Mariupol to Rumania (if they can get out)
Zoo animals, farm animals still need to be cared for though.  One zoo I believe decamped its animals to a safer country just in time.
What of all the sick, elderly and dependent people?  We have seen people in wheelchairs, Granny in a wheelbarrow, helped by family, but there are others who cannot escape alone who just have to stay and take what's coming.  All praise to those who are helping with this crisis, Who's going to be the one to eliminate the cause I wonder. One brave kamikaze hero, if they exist.

[doganjo]

Who's going to be the one to eliminate the cause I wonder. One brave kamikaze hero, if they exist.

  I'd do it if i could get over there and close enough, but I'll bet his defences are pretty well impenetrable

[Penninehillbilly]

Coward!!
He'll stand and encourage others to be maimed or slaughtered, of course making sure he is safe himself.
What an evil monster.
Hopefully he will never be able to visit another country, and if he does, either immediatly arrested for war crimes, or even better..... end of.