[Hilarysmum]

I apologise if this offends.   See picture at bottom of page.

http://www.rivercottage.net/forum/ask/pigs/29053micro-pigs-mini-pigs-one-law-for-us/p:33/

[HappyHippy]

This is a major concern of mine too 
In the UK THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 'MINI/MICRO/TEACUP' PIG - the smallest recognised breed is the Kune Kune, unscrupulous breeders (or those with not enough experience/sense to be breeding) are charging crazy amounts of money for what is basically a mongrel 
One site quotes that they are a mix of Kune Kune, Tamworth and GOS - now let me ask you, if you crossed a yorkie, a labrador and a doberman (for example) you would never sell the pups by saying they were going to be smaller than the yorkie, people would realise the genetics of the breeding and know that they'd likely end up the size of the lab. So why do people believe that 'micro' pigs are any different 
Another VERY worrying thing is that they recommend ENTIRE boars as good pets - duh ! Can you imagine ? The amount of people who are already re-homing micro's because they've gotten too big is unbelieveable (or maybe they finally realised that pigs are better outside, after they've had their houses trashed) I fear that it's only a matter of time before some poor baby or child is seriously injured by a frustrated, sad, house pig - and then there will be a witch hunt, pigs will be given the same press as 'dangerous' dogs (IMHO there are NO 'bad' animals, only bad, or ignorant owners)

I don't want to cause offence either BUT.....................
Pigs are NOT indoor creatures and if you really want small pigs (cos a single pig will be desperately unhappy, and despite what these 'expert breeders' say - a dog is NOT the same as another pig interms of companionship) then buy Kune Kunes, at least you know the bloodlines, can be more certain about temprament and eventual size and more to the point, won't be creating a demand for the 'latest craze'
Sorry, rant over
Karen x

[robert waddell]

well what can i say that is not going to offend here goes happy hippy i can see how you are advocating kune kunes when you have them nothing wrong in that the amount of idiots that have asked us about this is unreal and willing to pay over the odds for them£400+  and don't believe you when informed they are stupid it is my belief that you have to have land to get a holding no before buying any pig  therefore it is a government induced problem i would not be happy  if these urban pig nutters were responsible for the next major disease outbreak we do not sell entire boars unless it is for breeding this is just our preference and to stop boars not up to standard breeding                                           now for the real slash and burn the river cottage site depicting to pig this is what i would refer to as an ill doer and if that is showcasing pigs they should be prosecuted and baned for life from keeping any animals as to pigmans contribution best not typing any more

[HappyHippy]

I just want to say that I don't charge £400 for a Kune Kune weaner. I actually think that from next year, I'll be dropping prices to be more in line with what people expect to pay for a pedigree rare breed weaner - though I expect the folks at the BKKPS who charge 'through the noses' prices may not be terribly happy with me 
My main point with the Kunes is that there's established bloodlines, and they can be shown to be reliably smaller than other breeds (not a pick 'n' mix pedigree that's not documented)
The fact that people in urban houses and flats can get CPH numbers definately doesn't mean I'm going to sell them a pig ! Far from it, I have turned away sales to such people, and people who don't listen and take on the advice about the amount of land and space needed, and the people wanting just one pig, when they don't have any already. I'd like to think I'm a decent pig keeper and wouldn't sell piglets to someone who wasn't going to look after them properly. That's probably why I've got a couple of boys left  but at least I can sleep at night, and look forward to some very tasty Kune Kune pork next summer
As to the entire boars, I do the same as you Lillian - only the best ones keep their bits if they are going to an experienced home to breed. But the mini pig breeders advocate NOT having them castrated  And I wonder how many of the 'mini' keepers know that in the event of a FMD outbreak, their beloved housepet might have to be culled, bet the breeders don't tell them that when they're taking their hard earned cash off them
Oh, I'm going to stop now before my head bursts ! See ya x

[robert waddell]

i was not meaning you take £400 if you could get that i would still have them that is the alleged price  mini pigs are selling at also on fmd  it is the rare breeds registered with bpa that will not be destroyed there is nothing that the bkkps can do other than exclude you they tried to run a cartell but the oft steeped in

[HappyHippy]

I've heard of people paying up to £1500 for the mini pigs  and there was a young girl at my daughter's school who's parents bought her 2 at a cost of £650 EACH ! I'm sorry, but the phrase "more money than sense" springs to mind Three days after getting them home, one died  6 months down the line and the other one was advertised for sale (think the novelty had worn off )
My Berkshires are registered with the BPA and once I get my Large Blacks or OSB's they'll be registered too , I've only got 4 breeding Kune's (which obviously aren't registered with the BPA cos they're not British, but still rare ) so in the worst case scenario I'd (hopefully) only have to cull them - but I'm hoping and praying that urban keepers ARE sticking to the same strict rules and regs with regard to feeding, or else they could potentially bring massive problems for all the pig keepers in the UK. I saw the thing about the BKKPS and their cartell - I try not to get too involved in the politics of pig keepers, I just like keeping pigs They certainly don't give me as much grief as my kids (and very little backchat too )

[robert waddell]

the spoiled little bitch from charlie and the chocolate factory springs to mind should we not be campaining to stop this practise as they are definitely not pets yes you can have  a sensible conversation on quantum  physics with them or any subject grunting in approval

[HappyHippy]

Yes Lillian, you're right It's the 'I want' mindset, but in today's 'disposable' era it's not long before there's a new 'must have' and the poor little piggies (or not so little as the case may be) suffer the same fate as the thousands of abandoned dogs in rescue centres.
I think (could be slightly off here, so don't quote me ) that Little Pig Farm, has had an advertising ban slapped on them, or maybe they had to change the wording used after failing to provide evidence of fully grown adults @ 14 inches high, like they were claiming.
Wendy Scudamore (who I believe posted the pic on RC) is actively involved with places who try to re-home some of the un-wanted ones (you can catch all the gossip on facebook ) and there are tv programmes and newspapers who are starting to run stories on 'maxi' micro pigs. But the people who want 'micro pig' house pets only hear what they want to hear, you could tell them, til you were blue in the face, that their mini pig WILL grow big and they wouldn't believe you.
I doubt the UK government will step in to stop the breeders though, they've not done much to help the farming community over the last few years - don't imagine it'll change now 
On a totally different subject - are you going to be at the Lanark sale in December ? I might try and get over if you are, I've got a feeling we could have quite a lot to talk about 
Take care,
Karen x

[robert waddell]

I was going to suggest that, you beat me to it.

[HappyHippy]

LOL ! It's either a case of "great minds think alike" or "fools seldom differ" 
I'll pm you my mobile number and see you there, with rolls & sausage waiting

[ballingall]

Sorry- I am going to take this on a slight tangent, so I apologise in advance. If you have rare breed pigs registered with the BPA- they don't need to be culled if there is an outbreak of FMD? I wasn't aware of this. Is that the case for any other animals- ie registered with the RBST?


Beth

[robert waddell]

don't know the exact format that would be involved bpa did elaborate on this a good few years ago age +memory?? i would imagine all animals susceptible would be preserved  if memory is correct they are inoculated with fmd how that will stand with the UK fmd free i have no idea

[HappyHippy]

Hi Beth, it's my understanding (with pigs, don't know about anything else I'm afraid) that if you're in an area where FMD breaks out, if you have registered rare breed pigs that you may be exempt from the cull. Obviously, only if yours are FMD free and I think they take into account other factors such as what breed you have and how scarce they are in your particular area, etc. I don't think it's guarenteed, but you have more of a chance of escaping the cull, in order that the rare breed bloodlines aren't lost. If it's for your goats I'd get in touch with the RBST and check with them - sorry I can't be of more help.
Karen x

[Fleecewife]

Hi HappyHippy - that's about right, for sheep and poultry anyway.  But you must register the numbers of each rare breed that you have with RBST every year. Nothing is guaranteed, but at least if RBST has an idea of how many of each breed there are they have some factual basis for their arguments in the event of disease outbreak.

Back to the micro pigs.  Surely to produce smaller than average pigs of any breed they must have bred from the runts of each litter, which is bound to lead to such sad little things as the gilt on the river cottage site. It would be nice if the RSPCA stepped in but their record of protecting farm animals, such as during FMD, is atrocious. It should be well within the powers of DEFRA to stop it, but their main concerns seem to be elsewhere too.

[HappyHippy]

Oh Fleecewife, breeding from runts is only ONE of the worrying trends for mini's
ALLEGEDLY (got to put that bit in to save any lawsuits ) some breeders are encouraging under feeding - claiming that a bag of food will last for a month, while that's fine when they're 8 weeks old, by the time they get to 6 months (if they live that long) they're going to be seriously malnourished.
I've heard of some breeders buying runts from litters of GOS's and the like, laughing as they loaded them into their cars whilst saying how much they can sell them on for 
In a lot of cases, the piglets die before they reach maturity. The bone structure stops growing, but the internal organs don't - I'm not going to go into this in great detail, but I'm sure you can figure out what happens
In many cases the piglets are weaned WAY too early (to give the impression they're smaller than they actually are) which, in itself, shows that the breeders don't have a clue about what they are doing or the welfare of the pigs in mind
The 'market leaders' in the world of mini-pigs claim that all their piglets are treated like royalty with cosy beds and grassy paddocks, when someone visited the place it was quite obvious that this was not the case - I've seen photographic proof of piglets/weaners in outside terrible looking runs full of muck, arcs that are too small to accomodate all of the piglets and no straw in the arcs
It's my feeling that the 'mini pig' bubble is going to burst really soon, and all the 'breeders' will disappear as quickly as they appeared, with cash lined pockets, laughing all the way to the bank, while everyone else is left to pick up the pieces (but not the 200lb 'minis' )
If all of this hasn't put you off already, how about taking on one of their franchises (I kid you not) for £10,000 you'll get some breeding stock and have the back up and support of these mini pig breeders. (I'm sorry, but it's just all to 'commercial' for my liking, a way to make some cash maybe, but how can they sleep at night ?)
I can feel the men in white coats coming to pick me up cos of all my ranting - I'd better stop