Author Topic: Stocking rates  (Read 3232 times)

Chris01

  • Joined Jan 2022
Stocking rates
« on: February 09, 2022, 07:50:44 pm »
I've got a question on stocking rates, here in the north west of Ireland I'm running 40 mountain cross  breeding ewes along with 30 replacement ewe lambs on about 40 acres of mountain and 30 acres of lowland. I'm aiming to at least double the amount of breeding ewes from this year on wards and have about 20 replacements too so about 100 sheep at any given time.

The grass in the summer months really gets away with itself the last few years as its been under-stocked and under managed so I'm wondering what other people would be thinking of running on this amount of ground ?

And also any system on over wintering the increase in sheep; do you rent out a winterage for the dormant growing period, house or feed grain etc.?

 Id love to get my numbers up and over the 100 mark and keep increasing when more land becomes available but its the winter time that is causing problems, as i fear id be overstocked once the grass covers die down and be forced to feed conc. etc and also have poaching issues on top.

I will mention also that this year I'm lambing down early but plan to switch to late May/ early April lambing next year to make more use of that grass at lambing

Any recommendations or help welcome !

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Stocking rates
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2022, 11:38:04 pm »
I used to farm 450 Swaledale ewes and 80 North Country Mules on 1000 acres of Northumberland moorland.  About 300 acres was environmentally globally important mire, but dangerous to humans and livestock so was fenced off.  Of the remaining 700 acres, about 50 was improved to varying degrees, some of it even mowable; about 500 was the roughest, wettest grazing you can get, molinia mostly, but supported a hen harrier winter roost and 5 long-eared owls in summer, and breeding populations of lapwings, curlews, snipe and grouse (including one black grouse spotted one time only) plus a variety of rare wetland plants; and the other 150 was in between the two, being rough but with drainage "grips" which meant the ground could be excellent grazing in summer, a plethora of different species of plants on it.

Understocking would lead to almost monoculture molinia over time, so I do get what you mean about understocking being at least as bad as overstocking.  But... overstocking when it was very wet (and up there, it often rained almost non-stop from October to March) made it hell on earth for the sheep and everyone trying to look after them. 

Specific comments derived from my experience up there :

1.  It needed cattle (appropriate native types) to get that ground back and then to help keep it right.  (A very typical story in English farming... Natural England paid the previous farmer to take all the cattle off and keep the sheep numbers down, then at the end of that 10 year scheme, when it a lot of it had become overgrown with molinia, they paid the next farmer to put cattle back on... ::))

2.  Winters were very tough on the livestock and the humans looking after them.  Cattle needed to be housed for at least 4 months, sometimes 6, or they made too much mess of the ground as it was so very wet.  Hoggs (homebred replacements which we didn't put in lamb until their second year) needed cake to support them growing and getting through their first winter.  The previous farmer used to send his hoggs away to easier ground for their first winter, and I think that may have been the better option; it kept their headcount off the ground over winter when it could support fewer, and they grew on better in easier circumstances.  The in-lamb ewes really need the ground to be as good as possible to get them and their unborn lambs through the winter, so reducing the headcount over winter would help them too.  One year, instead of breeding our own, we bought in two batches of excellently bred 2 and 3-crop draft ewes from hard farms, but it wasn't a great success.  That sort of sheep and that sort of ground, they are hefted really; it took the incomers more than 12 months to settle in and they never really thrived. 

3.  Because it was a hard farm, our 3- and 4-crop draft ewes were sought after by easier but still upland farms, where they would do well for another couple of crops at least.   Farmers who knew how to manage them and the transition would pay a decent price, so long as we only drafted good ewes and culled any we couldn't stand behind.  But drafting at 4 crops latest meant we needed a lot of replacement ewes, so to maintain our 450 Swales to the tups each year, we would have to retain more than 100 good ewe lambs each year, which meant breeding more than a quarter of the Swales pure rather than to the Blue-faced Leicester for our main product, the North Country Mule ewe lamb. 

4.  We had permission to feed silage on the areas of moorland which had the drainage grips, provided we moved the ring for each big bale to reduce poaching.  The sheep thrived on the home-produced silage (haylage really) but even moving the ring every bale, the underlying ground was damaged by the silage - you could see the scars on the satellite pictures, and the ground would not cope with waterlogging as well for a couple of years after.  (Hay was much kinder to the ground, but it was a wet area and it wasn't always possible to make hay.  Plus if it had been a hard lambing, and a wet spring / early summer, we might struggle to shut the hay fields up early enough to get hay.)


Sorry, that's all rather jumbled, but I am trying to say that ramping the numbers up may cause a lot of knock-on effects.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Backinwellies

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Re: Stocking rates
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2022, 06:31:54 am »
here in soggy upland wales most local farmers send their sheep off to Pembrokshire in the winter ....  as a smallholder we cant do that and find ourselves feeding hay for pretty much 5+ months a year and have to house cows in winter ,for our sanity!. The cows (Shetland and Dexter do fine out all year round (not even loosing any weight) but we were having to drag dumy bags of hay through the somme to feed them!

can you double numbers and still have enough grass to make hay/silage for them for the winter?  Have you enough dry ground in winter for them to stay on?
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Chris01

  • Joined Jan 2022
Re: Stocking rates
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2022, 01:23:34 pm »
That's my worry, will the land and condition of the sheep suffer with the increase pressure in winter. The land could easily handle more than what is currently stocked, how much more I'm unsure. I always have at least 30 - 40 acres free at all times of the year with rotation. My problem being in the summer months, the land is split into 3 areas with a 10 minute drive between each so usually Ill leave the entire flock in one area for the summer months and they cant even keep this down therefore the other areas explode up and tend to lye down and go to waste and of course the rushes/ rough grass etc. come on. 

I don't save any hay on the farm although you'd think I would with the grass available ::) no baling equipment and the sheep graze the flat fields throughout summer so i don't bother getting the contractor. I buy in square bales for the kunekunes during winter so this year I got myself an extra 20 for feeding all sheep outside atm, I assume these days for a small farm like myself it probably makes more sense money wise to buy in as long as I can find a solution to keep stock up during summer months. All but twins are only on hay and buckets (lambing down soon) So all in all there's very little winter maintenance with the flock size currently.

I am considering buying in some stores at a good price in summer and using as much grass as I can to get weight on them and possibly aim for the back end of the year to turn a profit on them if that would be possible. Either that or maybe separate the flock into early and late lambing and house the early lambers as it will free up space in the worst months but allow for extra numbers on the same acreage ?

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Stocking rates
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2022, 01:51:06 pm »
I don't quite understand the bit about why you don't use home grown hay.  Equipment can be picked up second hand for little outlay.  We bought all our haymaking equipment that way including a baler, and the only thing we have had to replace in 26 years is the tedder which broke beyond repair when someone 'borrowed' it.  Plenty of used equipment is taken from Lanark mart across to NI every month.


We shut up our hay field in April, cut in July and the aftermath is ready for grazing in August. Could your bred hill sheep plus lambs not graze the mountain pastures in early summer then return to the hay aftermath in August?  It seems a huge waste of resources not to use all parts of your land fully. Or am I missing something?  Are you relying purely on numbers of stock to make your income rather than efficient management of your ground?  What do your neighbours do with regards to mountain versus in-bye?
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

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Chris01

  • Joined Jan 2022
Re: Stocking rates
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2022, 03:44:45 pm »
Hi FleeceWife, long story short, hay making, or at least the option of buying in equipment to self bale is a no go for now.. the only land that would be suitable in both access and quality is rented on a yearly basis..last year was meant to be the final year on it so therefore buying in equipment for potentially one season would be pointless unless of course I get my self suitable land in the future but it is hard to come by around here. If it was a long term lease or my own land, I would invest in the equipment for sure!

Small farming neighbors for the most part are farming roughly 1 ewe to the acre year round and the majority are out wintering and feeding conc./ hay . Those who keep cattle tend to be the only ones making there own hay while the rest will buy in if at all; many opt for the nut alone. Then there are also  a few that are farming higher stocking rates maybe 1.5/2:1 on the hills with minimal feeding using the blackface horn ewe and usually perform the same.
Time or money is a minor concern but of course at the end of the days its a additional income and an enjoyable one at that so obviously if I can afford to have more livestock I will. More so, I'm just curious to see what others are finding to be most suitable headage per acre( whether they have a set rate year round or buy and sell at convenient times etc.) and what system they have in play in terms of winterage regarding a hill flock

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Stocking rates
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2022, 05:42:51 pm »
That makes sense now. Definitely not worth buying equipment for one year's use  :D


We have a smaller amount of land but we found after much trial and error that keeping more animals didn't actually improve the income.  Fewer animals equals less work and a lower input but better quality stock, to the point where we now sell pedigree breeding stock.  Worth thinking about the general principle.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

Chris01

  • Joined Jan 2022
Re: Stocking rates
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2022, 06:26:30 pm »
Very true! And i would totally agree quality over quantity but when I go to cull ewes this year, i'll be more close to 1 ewe per 2 acres. Hows your own ewe: acre ? And although it would lessen the workload; A daily full list of farm jobs = a happy me ;D 

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Stocking rates
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2022, 11:13:31 pm »
I don't work in ewes per acre.  If I did it would be one breeder per acre.  We're only breeding a few ewes this year, but we have more who we're not breeding this year than those we are, plus four tups and a fleece wether, which gives us just under 3 sheep per acre.  Although we are an upland holding (1,000 feet asl) we don't have any hill land and our grass is good quality permanent pasture.  We keep mainly the sheep you see in my pic. So sorry, our system is not really comparable with yours I suppose. We are also at the other end of the life scale - winding down, not up, just when we're getting rather good at it  ::)
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

shep53

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Dumfries & Galloway
Re: Stocking rates
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2022, 09:53:03 am »
You need to just go slowly and put on a few more sheep every year  and see what happens , land and how you manage it ( fert / dung / lime /drainage /topping ) can vary wildly even on neighbouring farms , iv'e had 7.5 ewes per acre  down to 1 per acre with inwintering or all outside . Putting ewe lambs or even in lamb ewes away to good land for the winter is good to allow your land to rest and keeps your winter forage needs to a minimum and heavy stocking in the summer, lambs need to be either sold store in the autumn or again sent away to good ground to finish so that numbers are low at home over winter

Chris01

  • Joined Jan 2022
Re: Stocking rates
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2022, 08:55:30 pm »
Yes I think i'll increase it slowly and see how things go. I have a fair few replacements this year so that'l bring me up slightly once I cull off a few older ewes. So that, along with buying in a handful of blackface/ mountain I think that will be a good test run.

Planning on housing a lot more next year, so this will also take some pressure off the land if needed.

 

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