[BigAl]

Hi,

I am new to the site and apologise if this subject has been raised before.

We own a 5 acre holding up in North Wales and keep sheep on the land. Purchased the property back in 2007 and In 2017 we placed two shipping containers on the land outside of the property curtilage to use as storage for the associated machinery that I have.

I am considering applying for full PP to replace the the containers as they are not very practical with regards to what I can fit in to them.

I am a little nervous that a application  may end up with us being told to remove the containers and if refused on the PP have no storage at all.

Any body know the rules on Shipping Containers. I have looked at the 4-10 year rules and the mountain of definitions associated but can't seem to pin a definitive answer down?

Thanks in advance.

[cans]

Hi and welcome,

The only experience I have of shipping containers is the one OH rents.  It is in a secure storage yard, and this has no bearing on your question at all! 

I am sure someone more knowledgeable will be along with an answer

[doganjo]

I asked Mr Google -
Q. Do you need planning permission to put a container on your land?

A. Shipping containers are classified as temporary structures and so you do not normally need planning permission. ... For example, there may be special conditions in areas of natural beauty or conservation areas that mean permission is required.

[arobwk]

Hi [member=213897]BigAl[/member] - you will get many different answers on shipping containers, but if you don't move them periodically they become "permanent" structures requiring PP - simples really.  And, so, I understand your predicament:  if you don't get PP for a new shed or whatever and your ISOs are noted during the process, they might not receive retrospective development approval either.  (This is why it is safer to go for PP from the outset !!) 

Before offering any other thoughts, could you clarify what you mean by "on the land outside of the property curtilage".  Have you dumped ISOs on somebody else's land ?

[BigAl]

In answer to your question and thanks by the way for your info.

The containers are on agricultural land not on domestic hence outside the curtilage, owned by us.

I have seen that planning regard the concept of  'development’ as needing planning and therefore If one’s actions constitute ‘development’, planning permission will be required, unless specified exceptions apply.
Development’ is defined as either operational development or a material change of use of an area of land.
Operational development encompasses building, engineering, mining and other operations.
If the container is used in conjunction with the main use of the land, there is unlikely to be a material change of use.
So Operational development would be the main problem.
Would this be a fair statement?
 

[arobwk]

 So that I’m/we’re absolutely clear:  I take it what you are saying is that you have a placed 2 ISOs on the agri’ bit of your holding rather than on the domestic bit of your holding (?)

My own experience (in Cornwall) was that the Planners weren’t too concerned about a new agri’ development (actually in favour of development for a new rural business);  just what it looked like !!  They really wanted an “agricultural-type building” rather than my 2 (more secure) ISO containers.  I persuaded them, but the point I’m making is that your proposal [member=213897]BigAl[/member] for a new agri’ building could well not be a problem at all. Play on the “new/expanding rural business” aspect.

(Might help TASers if you could identify which Council planning department covers your area for others’ experiences on planning decisions in your area.)

Would you have space on your domestic part of the holding to relocate the ISOs if necessary (if PP application doesn’t play out favourably in the first instance) ?

[BigAl]

Yes they are on agri land and its North Wales for the planning.

Had the planning inspector appear out of nowhere yesterday. Let him self in via "jumping over" the wall as we have a locked electric gate. I obviously asked him how he got in and he told me 'over the wall'. So I asked if he had rung, yes he said I rang the bell, no I said the phone I didn't know you were coming. His response to that was we don't need permission, off to a good start I thought!!!!

He then struggled to orientate himself with the map and seemed overlay concerned about a public footpath that runs across our land and he seemed convinced that the containers were in its path until I managed to give him a bit of assistance in reading the map he had, doesn't fill me with confidence. He didn't seem to bothered with the containers, asked how long they had been here and what we needed the shed for. Explained the storage requirement and the unsuitability of the containers. He asked if they would be satay and I said no would sell them.
Asked a bunch of unrelated questions that I still cant figure and left. He posted the 28day notice on our house sign that is part way down the drive and said "its stuck no but I think it may blow of in a couple of days". Thought that was odd given people will moan if they don't see the notice and the application goes ahead.

So cross fingers time. Cant say I think he was the brightest bulb in the box and that always worries me as stupid is what stupid does Forrest.

[arobwk]

Had the planning inspector appear out of nowhere yesterday.

Yes they do do that !   
That also happened to me wrt to waste exemptions I'd applied for.  EA officer rang me saying "What is this trackway ..... ?" ...  "What trackway?" They had actually come to inspect (ref' my applications) and confused my bit of land with the neighbour's.  Perhaps they should all go on a mandatory orienteering course ?
Anyway, fingers crossed - good luck.
(Edit:  a 10 penny bet that the planning approval will ignore the existing ISOs.  A "10 penny bet" can only be made against the odds, but winning a "10 penny bet" is sweet !!)