Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?  (Read 1624 times)

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • Wester Gladstone Hebridean Sheep
Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2021, 12:26:35 am »

.... for centuries as the aristos left their London abodes for the shooting in August for a few months until the London Season began.


 


Strictly speaking, they were first homes and the London ones were the second homes, as most folk with a country seat, in Scotland or England, only spent part of the year there to make sure the rents were coming in, then headed for the bright lights.  Many had a third home in Bath or Brighton.  Today it's just worked its way down the social scale, so far more people want second homes of a size which are meant for ordinary people to live in, not mansions in Mayfair
« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 12:30:36 am by Fleecewife »
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SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2021, 01:48:42 pm »
If many do then why is it that so many places have a high percentage of second homes and holiday lets and all the associated, well documented issues of the problems that creates?


Because not all do.  And because the same conditions don't necessarily get passed on to the next buyer.  And because life happens. And also yes, because some buyers lie.


In the village there are many second home owners who are participative in the local community but only when they are here  :thinking:  They are also the ones who protested the loudest when there was applications to build affordable houses for local people.

Hrmph.  No doubt because they think affordable housing nearby will devalue their own properties.  (It won't, but one almost hopes it does! lol.)  People do love to write an angry letter, but at the end of the day, you have to have specific grounds to make a successful objection against a planning application.  So all they are doing is exposing their real selves to the local population - not necessarily the wisest course of action ;)
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • Wester Gladstone Hebridean Sheep
Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2021, 05:39:27 pm »
If many do then why is it that so many places have a high percentage of second homes and holiday lets and all the associated, well documented issues of the problems that creates?


Because not all do.  And because the same conditions don't necessarily get passed on to the next buyer.  And because life happens. And also yes, because some buyers lie.


In the village there are many second home owners who are participative in the local community but only when they are here  :thinking:  They are also the ones who protested the loudest when there was applications to build affordable houses for local people.

Hrmph.  No doubt because they think affordable housing nearby will devalue their own properties.  (It won't, but one almost hopes it does! lol.)  People do love to write an angry letter, but at the end of the day, you have to have specific grounds to make a successful objection against a planning application.  So all they are doing is exposing their real selves to the local population - not necessarily the wisest course of action ;)

They may be objecting because new-build houses DO change the nature of the locality.  Round here there is a planning habit of giving permission for a group of three new-build houses next to one or two existing dwellings.  But the design of these houses is far more suitable for town houses, so we now have a whole host of mini blots on the landscape, town-type houses with townie-in-the-country big 4x4s parked in the driveways - at night of course because they've driven to work in the day, to overfill the car parks in town which are sized for town cars.
Our neighbours up the road wanted something more in the vernacular when they built their new house and they really had to fight hard to get it - the initial PP was for the usual 3 x town-houses whereas they wanted a family home which looked as if it had always been there.  It's taking a while to blend in, but at least it looks the part.  Down the road on the other hand we have a row of 60s bungalows, the fashion at the time - they will never blend in.
So objections to new-builds is not necessarily NIMBYism.  And at what point @SallyintNorth will you allow newcomers to be 'locals'?  We have been here for 25 years, but we don't feel local (in spite of Mr F having been born and bred just 30 miles up the road); you have been there even less time, but you seem to see yourself as  local.  Round here you can be considered local if you or your children went to the local High School, or if you can cite other locals as your cousins/uncles/sisters/fathers. Perhaps there are subdivisions in localness within that definition but really the whole idea of being local is fairly farcical and medieval - we all live on earth, we're all Jock Tamson's bairns, isn't that enough?

I do understand the whole problem, but everyone wants to live somewhere, and is each person in the wrong for wanting to live somewhere beautiful? You should hear me, or perhaps not, when I get stuck in a standing queue heading up towards the Highlands, but why shouldn't everyone else be heading that way too?  We have to learn to share, we have to build houses suitable for everyone, but it should be done with sensitivity to style and price.  Second homes?  I find that just greedy
« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 06:25:36 pm by Fleecewife »
www.scothebs.co.uk

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

   Five Freedoms
   # Freedom from Hunger and Thirst.
   # Freedom from Discomfort.
   # Freedom from Pain, Injury or Disease.
   # Freedom to Express Normal Behavior.
   # Freedom from Fear and Distress

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2021, 07:51:33 pm »
If many do then why is it that so many places have a high percentage of second homes and holiday lets and all the associated, well documented issues of the problems that creates?


Because not all do.  And because the same conditions don't necessarily get passed on to the next buyer.  And because life happens. And also yes, because some buyers lie.


I think the answer is because most sell to the highest bidder regardless of whether they intend to live fulltime in the property or not. Very often properties are sold after parents die and families are already settled elsewhere and they no longer/or never did have roots in that location and the local issues aren't theirs.


I am sure that there are people who take a firm stance on who can buy their house but I think they are few and far between.


In the village there are many second home owners who are participative in the local community but only when they are here  :thinking:  They are also the ones who protested the loudest when there was applications to build affordable houses for local people.

Hrmph.  No doubt because they think affordable housing nearby will devalue their own properties.  (It won't, but one almost hopes it does! lol.)  People do love to write an angry letter, but at the end of the day, you have to have specific grounds to make a successful objection against a planning application.  So all they are doing is exposing their real selves to the local population - not necessarily the wisest course of action ;)


It isn't only second home owners who object to affordable housing projects.

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2021, 08:03:22 pm »
 


They may be objecting because new-build houses DO change the nature of the locality.  Round here there is a planning habit of giving permission for a group of three new-build houses next to one or two existing dwellings.  But the design of these houses is far more suitable for town houses, so we now have a whole host of mini blots on the landscape, town-type houses with townie-in-the-country big 4x4s parked in the driveways - at night of course because they've driven to work in the day, to overfill the car parks in town which are sized for town cars.
Our neighbours up the road wanted something more in the vernacular when they built their new house and they really had to fight hard to get it - the initial PP was for the usual 3 x town-houses whereas they wanted a family home which looked as if it had always been there.  It's taking a while to blend in, but at least it looks the part.  Down the road on the other hand we have a row of 60s bungalows, the fashion at the time - they will never blend in.
So objections to new-builds is not necessarily NIMBYism.  And at what point @SallyintNorth will you allow newcomers to be 'locals'?  We have been here for 25 years, but we don't feel local (in spite of Mr F having been born and bred just 30 miles up the road); you have been there even less time, but you seem to see yourself as  local.  Round here you can be considered local if you or your children went to the local High School, or if you can cite other locals as your cousins/uncles/sisters/fathers. Perhaps there are subdivisions in localness within that definition but really the whole idea of being local is fairly farcical and medieval - we all live on earth, we're all Jock Tamson's bairns, isn't that enough?

I do understand the whole problem, but everyone wants to live somewhere, and is each person in the wrong for wanting to live somewhere beautiful? You should hear me, or perhaps not, when I get stuck in a standing queue heading up towards the Highlands, but why shouldn't everyone else be heading that way too?  We have to learn to share, we have to build houses suitable for everyone, but it should be done with sensitivity to style and price.  Second homes?  I find that just greedy



They object for many reasons. As Sally said they think their property prices might be affected. They might lose their view or the place will be busier, noisier, different. The same worries affect residents too.


I don't have a problem with second home owners or holiday lets. If you have enough money to invest in a second home why shouldn't you? Holiday lets create a lot of employment. The key is balance and the right development in the right place on the right scale.




SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2021, 10:15:36 pm »
I have found Cornwall most welcoming and inclusive.  If you live here - don't have a home somewhere else - then you are a local. 

It did not feel like that in Cumbria, which is not to say that people weren't warm, friendly, helpful and welcoming - but you always felt like an incomer.

Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow. Some like to think it's in England.
Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2021, 12:27:35 am »
A mini extract from Harmony's last post - "The key is balance ..."
And the problem is that there is insufficient balancing being done by LAs:  more by-laws please.  Half a village-worth of 2nd homes and holiday lets is not a community!!  (There are increasing numbers of half villages - even half towns - here.)

Too many people with too much money and too many people with not enough !  Maybe that's where we need to do some balancing ?  Maybe the G7 could discuss that !!
« Last Edit: January 24, 2021, 12:40:21 am by arobwk »

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2021, 09:11:37 am »
A mini extract from Harmony's last post - "The key is balance ..."
And the problem is that there is insufficient balancing being done by LAs:  more by-laws please.  Half a village-worth of 2nd homes and holiday lets is not a community!!  (There are increasing numbers of half villages - even half towns - here.)

Too many people with too much money and too many people with not enough !  Maybe that's where we need to do some balancing ?  Maybe the G7 could discuss that !!


You can't take housing stock back but there is opportunity for building houses at an appropriate scale in communities to bring back and keep residents and it is happening here at varying degrees.


LA's also need to lobby for second homes owners to pay full council taxes.


Not only has the resident status in places changed but we have lost supporting services such as shops and schools so with increases in permanent residency there would have to be investment in services.


As for balancing the gap between low and high incomes you can increase minimum wages and increase higher tax bands but there is always going to be those who have more than others. It's not a crime to work hard and be successful.


In our village we too have had the 50/50 split with residents and second homes and it does affect community and services.



Vile Traveller

  • Joined Dec 2019
Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2021, 04:31:43 pm »
Too many people with too much money and too many people with not enough !  Maybe that's where we need to do some balancing ?  Maybe the G7 could discuss that !!
Oh, they discuss that every time they meet. And have a good laugh about it over drinks afterwards.  :roflanim:

Second homes are a tricky issue, and governments seem unable to come up with workable direct interventions. The Welsh council tax surcharge is a case in point - now second-home owners just register them as businesses. Local councils end up with no council tax instead of double, and the business rates go straight to Westminster never to be seen again.

There's no point blaming buyers, because we all want the best deal for our money. You can't blame sellers, either, because it's hard to say no to hundreds of thousands of pounds. The only way to prevent the syndrome is to have decent local employment so that locals can compete against the richest house buyers in the country. That might work in London, but if you happen to be a very beautiful part of the country there will always be millionaires looking to buy a piece of you.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2021, 05:03:29 pm »

LA's also need to lobby for second homes owners to pay full council taxes.


It is up to each Council whether they give a discount or not.  Cornwall charge full whack for all dwellings, and has done so for 7 or 8 years.  The only discount available is 25% for single person occupancy.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
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Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2021, 06:02:01 pm »

LA's also need to lobby for second homes owners to pay full council taxes.


It is up to each Council whether they give a discount or not.  Cornwall charge full whack for all dwellings, and has done so for 7 or 8 years.  The only discount available is 25% for single person occupancy.

Obviously second properties for let are different becasue the resident pays the  council tax, but generally in Scotland anyway, if you have two homes you pay council tax on both unless you live on your own in which case you get 25% discount on your main residence, and possibly a small discount on the second, but it's up to each council

 "For Council Tax purposes, a second home is a property which is no-one's main residence but which is occupied for at least 25 days a year. Each council has discretion to apply a discount of between 10% and 50% on second homes, or may choose to apply no discount."
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow. Some like to think it's in England.
Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2021, 08:18:57 pm »
I wonder what the Queen pays on her 2nd homes ?  (I'm not meaning to be provocative and I'm not a republican, but I do wonder sometimes how much the Crown Estate must have to pay in Council Tax - must be a huge amount for a Band X rating valuation !! ??  :)  Is there a Band X valuation rating actually ?)

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow. Some like to think it's in England.
Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2021, 08:39:40 pm »
I'm not sure what a G7 Conference entails, but is Cornwall's infrastructure able to cope?
Should be ideal, the delegates can fly in while protestors will have trouble getting there overland.  :thinking:

Thankfully I have 2 relatively easy alternative routes to my fields that avoid the A30 !

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow. Some like to think it's in England.
Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2021, 09:03:44 pm »
I have found Cornwall most welcoming and inclusive.  If you live here - don't have a home somewhere else - then you are a local. 

It did not feel like that in Cumbria, which is not to say that people weren't warm, friendly, helpful and welcoming - but you always felt like an incomer.


I'm glad you feel that SiN;  unfortunately I predict Cornish folk will not be quite so friendly to obvious outsiders in quite near time and onwards.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: G7 2021 - why Cornwall ?
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2021, 09:05:19 pm »
Quote from: Metro
The Queen pays 1,337.62 per year in council tax for Buckingham Palace as she falls into valuation band H.

Windsor Castle also commands a hefty sum in council levy meaning the Queen forks out 2365.16 for the property annually.

Balmoral Castle in Aberdeenshire commands 2460.78 in council tax as the property is again listed in Valuation Band H along with the rest of her properties.

Sandringham estate in Norfolk sees the Queen pay 3,033.2 in council tax making her council tax payments come to a collected 9,167.76 annually.


Article dated Nov 2017.

I am struggling to see how sums such as these are justifiable on palaces, castles and mansions, when a Band A property (ie, very tiny!) in Cornwall costs around 1,000 pa  ???  (And has done for the last 5 years at least)
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

 

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