Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Losing the will to continue ...  (Read 652 times)

WishfulThinker21

  • Joined Jan 2020
Losing the will to continue ...
« on: November 10, 2020, 07:49:52 pm »
Yes it's click bait but not entirely...

I need somewhere to grumble about the total inaccessibility of land down South.
All of the home counties don't have any meaningful land to buy.
If land does come on the market it's builders/development plots or full of caveats prohibiting any commercial use.
All I want is 1 acre of land to start a market gardening business. One measly acre.
I've started looking to rent land instead, out of desperation, but that is even more scarce.. it's pretty much just pony/horse paddocks..

I'm always hiking in the countryside and it got me thinking.. perhaps I could take my chances approaching farmers and asking them if I can buy or rent 1-2 acres of land... I don't really care about the knockbacks that may come from it.. I'm a big lump.. but is it a totally stupid idea? I guess I'll only know by finding out..

I wish I could move away from greater London but I'm stuck here for the foreseeable (family ties).
Willing to commute up to an hour 1 way, so Hertfordshire/ Bedfordshire are the only real options..

Can anyone relate?
Thanks

macgro7

  • Joined Feb 2016
Re: Losing the will to continue ...
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2020, 08:35:45 pm »
Mate, ive been looking for about 8 years.
From yime to time there are some nice plots that com3 to the market but they are sold within couple of days.
So unless you have cash to buy outright - there is no way to buy small plot of land.
If you think you can manage small market garden well enough to make a living from it (i.e. not only grow stuff but most importantly sell it!) then you easily manag3 any other business.
Nowadays it is realtively easy to make a living from anywhere in the world, or at least UK - as long as parcelforce or Royal Mail gets there and can collect parcels from you - you can start a business selling whatever anywhere.
Start a business save up (hopwfully sooner than later) and th3n you will be able to buy your dream farm.
I wanted to buy a farm for years but realistically now im thinking of just buying a smallholding to have more of my own animals, trees and veggies for my family - now thwt i know i csn make much better living selling stuff online.
Get a ticket to Turkey (£60) or China (£500) and buy some stuff - whatever will sell - dont just sell stuff that is related to your hobby.
Dont start rubbish businesses like making hand made birthday card etc as you will just get in debt.
Think it through - but start something.
You csn 3ven start selling vegetables grown by other people. My mate sells buffalo meat - buys whole carcass from organic farm, and sell single straks and boxes through instagram and facebook.
Dont sit and cry - it wont do anything - i know, i tried.
Growing loads of fruits and vegetables! Raising dairy goats, chickens, ducks, geese rabbits and a little boy on 1/2 acre in the middle of the city of Leicester, using permaculture methods.

WishfulThinker21

  • Joined Jan 2020
Re: Losing the will to continue ...
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2020, 09:24:42 am »
 :raining:
Hi Mac, that's a little reassuring.
Glad to know I'm not alone and there much be thousands of people like us hidden away and resentful.
I came across a piece of land in Kent which looked almost ideal for what I wanted it for and it ended up selling for 5 times the guide price. No doubt it will be turned into a development site. It was surrounded by woodland all around with a pond and good aspect. Someone swooped in with £100,000 cash.

Totally agree with you about the online thing. I've done it, and will likely go back to doing it. In my case it was selling plants online (those I could manage to fit into my small growing space). Made a bit of pocket money over lock down but came across regulations that I didn't understand about plants now needing a plant passport ??? It didn't make sense to me and as the first lock down lifted and I sold mostly everything I had germinated earlier in the year I decided to stop that. Profit margins are not great after fees (ebay/paypal) charge too much, but still work keeping going I suppose. I'm going through a slow process of selling off whatever possessions I have to save money, but it's a few hundred pounds here and there and not much to get excited about.

The box schemes/small scale commercial ag that I come across - well, I have have been there and earned my stripes, to be quite frank. I've volunteered hundreds of hours of my life on these schemes, doing all the market gardening related stuff (germinating/weeding/packing, etc etc etc). Eventually, when you become a known face, you end up doing the same tasks every time you go - weeding hundreds of square meters on your own in terrible weather with an oscillating hoe, while the rest of the volunteers find an excuse to be somewhere else. I've volunteered on veg pack schemes hoping for opportunities to open up. From my experience most 'community' supported agricultural businesses are just a front - they use volunteer labour to save money with the guise that it is work experience for the volunteer, and to an extent that it true.. but no actual opportunities exist for employment in these places.. It's a clever way to get tedious jobs done that the limited staff don't want to do without having to pay anyone. I've seen enough there.

Would you consider jointly buying something? Without knowing where you are based and your budget it's pointless me asking any more questions.. but something maybe worth considering?
Feel to PM me if you want to,
All the best

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Losing the will to continue ...
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2020, 10:04:33 am »
If you are keen on selling vegetables etc you will have to be near enough to large conurbations/cities in order to make it viable, but the price of land within commuting distance to these places will always make it much more expensive...


But if you can you grow (plants, animals etc) somehting that you then can sell mail order you could do it anywhere (unless you are dependent on mild climate), and you could look further away. Land is available and cheaper (though never really cheap) in Scotland or the remoter parts of Wales, but you have to decide if you are really tied to London... if yes, then just saving up for when you are able to move seems to only option.

DippyEgg

  • Joined May 2017
Re: Losing the will to continue ...
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2020, 02:33:02 pm »
How about Suffolk? All depends on your budget of course!

macgro7

  • Joined Feb 2016
Re: Losing the will to continue ...
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2020, 04:42:21 pm »
Land is a lot cheaper in Wales, Scotland or Lincolnshire.
Around here (Leicestershire) is ridiculously expensive. Obvioysly the closer to London the worse it is.
Growing loads of fruits and vegetables! Raising dairy goats, chickens, ducks, geese rabbits and a little boy on 1/2 acre in the middle of the city of Leicester, using permaculture methods.

WishfulThinker21

  • Joined Jan 2020
Re: Losing the will to continue ...
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2020, 11:52:25 am »
My budget is about 25k and even that is pushing it a little as to account for conveyancing/auction fees and of course the startup cost of such a business. The further away from London the more likely I would need to temporarily live on the land to get the business going, which adds further cost.

Allow about 20-25k for start up, that includes getting permissions and greenhouse/poly tunnel (which would be absolutely essential). Overall I would need to set aside 50k to buy the land and get everything going for the first years trading (that assumes I'm commuting to and from where I currently live and not living on the land which would actually work out more expensive). It's just not affordable on my own and I do realise that. Having a partner would solve the finance issue but present a whole different set of challenges because then you have another decision maker and the conflict that may bring. 

 A silent partner would be ideal. Essentially borrowing money to buy land would be an option but it's unlikely anyone is going to lend to me without a sound business plan. What I need is the land and to be left alone to get on with it. I work best on my own. I can deal with an extremely grueling workload, it's people that usually present the biggest obstacle.

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Losing the will to continue ...
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2020, 01:48:16 pm »
Sorry to stamp on your wishful thinking but that amount of money will barely get you a grass verge near London if you're lucky.  Can't you move?
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

honeyend

  • Joined Oct 2011
Re: Losing the will to continue ...
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2020, 07:34:07 pm »
I think farmers in most areas are really cautious, like everyone else they do not want bad neighbours. My mum and stepfather sold a house and five acres, at the time free-range eggs was all the go, and the buyer wanted a commercial hen shed, I said they were foolish to agree, and what happens when it goes bust. Five years late its derelict in the back paddock, and they have sold the house and land to a HGV driver who knackers their drive that was over a mile long, with a huge lorry. They are moaning, but they took the money.  I agree with voluntary groups, its usually cheap labour to fund a lifestyle. I would look at Cambridgeshire, there are some cheap spots, and my husband could commute into London. There are also jobs on the land which may not be well paid, but it's a way to get in the know, and find out the pitfalls, there are still plenty of houses with large garden/plots.  Ours is a disused dairy farm, but the land is clay so it needs two winters and a foot of muck to grow anything.  I tried pig share, the lady in the next village was lovely, but even with a contract, she turned up with five kids in tow, was panicked when she got a shock off the electric fence, and I ended up doing the work part of the pig keeping.  The bigger the piece of land the cheaper it is to buy per acre, so I would look at larger acreage and see if you can get a partner. Across from me is 30acres owned by someone who has just parked their money in it. The previous owner rented it out, it was left a ploughed field, now starting to go to scrub, and I have my few cows on a part of it in the summer, they have no interest at all in the land.My ideas, were a micro dairy, scuppered because I was really ill last year, and need to downsize, and a shop co-operative. We have a lot of people who sell stuff from the gate, but its just passing trade. My idea was a farm small producer shop where they could leave their stuff, its barcoded EPOS, and I get a percentage, with them hopefully getting increased sales. Lockdown got people shopping local but it all takes time and it is easier to shop in one place.  If you want a trip to the sticks once lockdown is over you are welcome to come. It's not that isolated, its three miles from Scewfix.

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Losing the will to continue ...
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2020, 10:45:54 am »
Quote
It's not that isolated, its three miles from Scewfix.

[/quote]  Do you sell tools  :innocent: :roflanim:  :coat:
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Losing the will to continue ...
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2020, 05:40:03 pm »
   A silent partner would be ideal. Essentially borrowing money to buy land would be an option but it's unlikely anyone is going to lend to me without a sound business plan. What I need is the land and to be left alone to get on with it. I work best on my own. I can deal with an extremely grueling workload, it's people that usually present the biggest obstacle.


Sorry but without a business plan you would not get anyone to part with their money, bank or private individual. I also do not see the point of just starting to grow without a business plan (and it would need to be location specific), as you may invest lots of money and have no customers...

honeyend

  • Joined Oct 2011
Re: Losing the will to continue ...
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2020, 08:46:38 am »
Quote
It's not that isolated, its three miles from Scewfix.

  Do you sell tools  :innocent: :roflanim: :coat:

Its my husbands excuse every time he wants to go out in lockdown, 'I'm just going to Scewfix', or it could be the tip, which is next door. If its Jewsons he could be gone for hours.

 

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