Smallholders Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: non vaccinated birds  (Read 550 times)

Ghdp

  • Joined Aug 2014
  • Conwy
non vaccinated birds
« on: September 14, 2020, 08:31:57 pm »
I have been offered (ie to buy!) three non vaccinated but apparently healthy bantam hens. Are bantams not usually vaccinated before sale ( these are for sale at £20 each)
No idea what is normal. our hens have usually cost us around £30 each at POL and are vaccinated

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: non vaccinated birds
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2020, 09:13:48 pm »
 In my experience only commercial breeders vaccinate their birds. I've only ever bought off small private breeders and never had any that were vaccinated, nor ever done any of my own.
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: non vaccinated birds
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2020, 09:40:47 pm »
If you introduce vaccinated birds to an unvaccinated flock you run the risk of loosing your non-vaccinated ones, so better to not have them vaccinated. I now don't buy in any birds at POL, just get a new cockerel most years and breed my own replacements. I

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: non vaccinated birds
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2020, 09:59:22 pm »
^ Yes, that's exactly what happened to us. The vaccinated POLs we bought were all perfectly healthy, but a week after mixing them together post quarantine, our existing home-bred birds all came down with mycoplasma  :( .


I think it's best not to mix vaccinated and un-vaccinated if you can.
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: non vaccinated birds
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2020, 07:35:06 am »
^ Yes, that's exactly what happened to us. The vaccinated POLs we bought were all perfectly healthy, but a week after mixing them together post quarantine, our existing home-bred birds all came down with mycoplasma  :( .


I think it's best not to mix vaccinated and un-vaccinated if you can.


Yep, we found out the hard way as well.....

GribinIsaf

  • Joined Aug 2015
  • Montgomeryshire
    • Gribin Isaf
Re: non vaccinated birds
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2020, 09:39:48 pm »
^ Yes, that's exactly what happened to us. The vaccinated POLs we bought were all perfectly healthy, but a week after mixing them together post quarantine, our existing home-bred birds all came down with mycoplasma  :( .

Um... depressing.  We recently bought in six POL to bring new blood into our quite large flock.  We got them from a private breeder (or maybe semi-private, they do do sales once a month at local country stores) who has supplied us before.

The birds were from three different breeds.  While in quarantine one bird immediately showed symptoms of mycoplasma.  We put it by itself and contacted the breeder.  He said "it might have been missed during vaccination"  It got worse so we had to cull and the breeder did refund us.  Now a second bird has started showing symptoms (or a different breed).  We have isolated that one now.

We are now at a bit of impasse.  One of the birds was a mature Speckled Sussex we bought to introduce to our small single breed flock.  Should we move it in with them now... or wait....?  Both our main large mixed flock and the Speckled Sussex group are mycoplasma free.

I think, as said above, we will stick to hatching our own in future but we spent money on these birds and it is all a bit depressing.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: non vaccinated birds
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2020, 08:47:32 am »
I'm sure somebody more knowledgeable than me will be along in a minute, but in our case none of the vaccinated birds showed any symptoms at all, but they must have still been carriers. When (after quarantine) they were introduced to our original flock, it was the originals which all came down with it.

Personally I wouldn't risk it. If your new stock are all healthy then you should be able to sell them on to somebody either without other hens or who already has vaccinated stock though, so it won't be a total waste.

But yes, it is depressing.
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: non vaccinated birds
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2020, 02:14:20 pm »
In our case not only did the home-bred birds die (first) we then lost the bought-in ones over a period of a few weeks - the last couple were just pts. Fortunately I got some eggs from someone down the road and hatched our own, and since then that's what we have been doing. Only buying in (or usually bartering) individual cockerels from other smallholders.

DalesFarmer

  • Joined Sep 2020
  • North Yorkshire
Re: non vaccinated birds
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2020, 01:54:38 pm »
Hi there! I’m collecting hens next weekend, some of which have been vaccinated and some of which haven’t. It’s a bit frustrating as different breeders have differing views on the subject. I’ve just had to ensure a quarantine area to begin with and hope they all remain well. I’ve also purchased an XL dog crate for a sick bay too that I can keep separate. Hope you get the answers you’re seeking.

Richmond

  • Joined Sep 2020
  • Norfolk
Re: non vaccinated birds
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2020, 09:37:49 am »
I've been reading this thread with interest as I have kept unvaccinated and vaccinated birds together with no issues.
Mycoplasma and other illnesses can be spread by pigeons and other birds using the drinkers, and if hens free range then they will almost always drink out of a dirty puddle in preference!  Even in covered pens I have seen wild birds sit on top and cr*p into the water so it may be that the vaccinated hens are not necessarily to blame.


chrismahon

  • Joined Dec 2011
  • Gascony, France
Re: non vaccinated birds
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2020, 01:08:00 pm »
We were hit very badly when we introduced two immunised hybrids to our flock of pedigrees. I use the term 'immunised' because they are no longer 'vaccinated', which is to be given a dead virus. They do vaccinate here, but only against Newcastle Disease for show birds and it has to be done annually. Our problems arose due to the stress induced in the move, which caused the live viruses to flare up and be infectious. The live viruses given are the mildest in each group and in our case there were three of them. Now they have added a fourth- Mycoplasma. These viruses are introduced gradually, either by spraying the air in the coop or in the water. Catching all three at the same time left us with a very sick flock and a £200 vet bill.


I don't see the need for immunisation, unless the birds are kept in extremely poor conditions which promote disease. They don't immunise here and they don't beak clip either- both are unnecessary because the welfare standards are so high.


I've now read of numerous cases where immunised birds have been bought, become stressed, the four viruses have flared up and they have died.


Two things spring to mind Ghdp. Firstly, these problems only seem to occur when immunised birds are moved to non-immunised, so buying in your bantams should be fine. Secondly, £30 a hen, unless it is a top quality pedigree breed is a ridiculous price- healthy pol hybrids here are €12 each and we bought our last lot for €5 each.

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: non vaccinated birds
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2020, 07:06:50 pm »
Chris, I agree that's on the high side, but it's not totally crazy. Round here, Isa Browns are about £10 each, laying hybrids (e.g. black rock) are £15-20 and pure breeds around £20 (all at point of lay).
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

 

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