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Author Topic: Different flies?  (Read 4218 times)

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Different flies?
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2020, 12:47:57 am »

I do understand the desire to protect your sheep early in the season!  [member=4333]Fleecewife[/member] has a method she uses, whereby, if I remember correctly, she treats only the "undercarriage" of her hoggs with Crovect or similar, using a spray bottle setup of her own devising, which tides them over until shearing.  I'm sure she must mention it to the shearer, but as it's only on the undercarriage I doubt if they worry about it.
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The shearer is Mr F (my husband) and sometimes me, and I'm the rousie who rolls the fleeces!  I suppose we have gradually modified how we use anti-fly strike chemicals over the years, in response to the level of threat.  Now we spray all the lambs in late May, after an April lambing - their fleece will be on them for over a year before shearing so will have no residue. Lambs are more likely to have the occasional mucky bum and are hard to catch individually, no they are impossible to catch individually - they are Hebs!  so they all get done as a prevention
For a few years a while back we had plenty of problems with strike as our bad neighbour to the east of us had struck ewes going down frequently and that seemed to raise the overall numbers of flies around.  He is no longer allowed to keep livestock (thanks SSPCA ) and the shepherd who now uses his land takes proper care of his sheep.  We have also planted hedges all around our land which seems to keep the things away, as we have had no  :fc: :fc: :fc: problems for the last few years.
Our routine, after doing the lambs in May, is to treat each ewe after shearing (we hand shear so there is enough fleece left for the product to stick on) and in previous years we have then repeated at 6 week intervals.  This year however, we have not repeated the dose as there has been no need, inspite of the humid weather.  We keep a very sharp eye on all the sheep, lambs, ewes and tups, from late April to about the end of October, our fly strike season.  Should we see flies about we would bring the sheep in and check them all over - they get very used to being gathered  ;D and we would spray them as necessary.
We don't plaster the liquid willy nilly over the whole fleece because for us, in our locality, this year and for the past few years, it has not been necessary - if it was necessary we would do it.  As it is, yes we use a spray bottle (a well cleaned out bathroom cleaner spray in fact as the spray mechanism is designed to resist chemicals) which we have calibrated to give the right dose with a set number of squeezes of the trigger.  The reason for this is thet many of the more primitive sheep breeds don't have the wide, flat back that the big commercials do, so we were finding a huge amount was wasted.  We spray around the horns, down behind and each shoulder, round the tail root, under the tail and up between the back legs, preferably with the sheep on it's bum so we can see.  Tups are sprayed around the sheath area, as dribbly ones can attract flies and that can lead to infection.  Of the area sprayed, very little is of use to the spinner or craft worker.  Whether it's our breed, or just luck, or that we are not heavily stocked, we have not had to spray any adults prior to shearing time.  If we did then either the sprayed part of the fleece, or the whole thing, would be burnt, as I would not work with it.

So in short, over the years we have adapted our spraying regime to suit the flock as it is each year, taking into account the weather and prevailing fly levels.  We don't skimp on the use of a product because of the expense - if it's needed then it's used, but there is no point in overdosing animals or being wasteful with what is a dangerous chemical if there is no need for it.  Getting to know your animals and their normal behaviour is essential to be able to monitor their health and this applies to fly strike just as much.

For anyone with a high incidence of strike, perhaps you should have a good look at your flock to see if there are any management issues which are responsible for your high strike rate.  These might include areas where flies collect under trees or near mud or near a shelter, or it might be that you are overstocked, or that your sheep are not in optimum condition. Your land might be close to a field where cattle collect, with their accompanying flies.  There are probably many other factors which are at play, and dealing with those could mean that you don't need to rely on chemicals so much, just on the animals overall good health. On the other hand maybe it's just a bad fly year in your locality.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 12:59:27 pm by Fleecewife »
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Different flies?
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2020, 07:36:30 am »
Thanks for that, [member=4333]Fleecewife[/member] : I knew you would have wisdom to add!

I think it's twiz with the high incidence, and I can vouch for the pesky buzzers being much more prevalent and active in Cornwall than they were in the far north of England.  And I'm in North Cornwall with land that's fairly exposed. 

I don't like using the chemicals and mostly prefer vigilance and prompt action, so that it's dealt with before there is any broken skin.   We get one or two each year and it's nearly always a hogg (or lamb in late season) that was a bit mucky, so I have learned to be more proactive about dagging, and this year have resolved to give all hoggs a thorough tidy up before lambing, as some of our darker hoggs turned put to be carrying well-hidden dags between their back legs, where they'd lain on wet ground in winter and got a bit muddy.

But if I am going to be away in fly season, I usually spray the lambs before I go, just to give me peace of mind and try to avoid the others having to deal with a strike in my absence.  Although I've taught 2 of the new members what to do and they dagged all the hoggs this year :) , so it's less of a big deal than it was if we get one while I am away.

All of which said, we had one nasty strike in early summer this year on a white mainly Shetland hogg for which I could see no reason she got struck.  A combination of unusual circumstances (including an afternoon check being done late, when the light wasn't so good and the person was in a bit of a hurry) meant it wasn't spotted for more than 24 hours, so she had some outer skin damage. I felt awful about that - and so did the checkers who had missed the signs.  (Or the check :/)  I don't think they will do that again... 

Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

twizzel

  • Joined Apr 2012
Re: Different flies?
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2020, 08:05:22 am »
Yep it’s me with high risk- all our neighbours have had issues this year especially. My hoggs were struck between the shoulder blades in clean fleece- the reason being it was very hot, they were sweating, flies were attracted to it and hey presto. They were in good condition, plenty of grass, not lame, clean backsides. Field couldn’t be changed as others were shut up for silage and the cattle were grazing the rest. Management wise I could not do any more this year hence next year using pour on before shearing. We are right down in Cornwall, it’s very mild and unlike sally we are not exposed. So I’ll keep on using pour on to cover them from April - October, I’d rather that than maggots  :tired:
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 08:07:44 am by twizzel »

Bramham Wiltshire Horns

  • Joined Oct 2014
  • leeds
  • Bramham flock Wiltshire Horns
Re: Different flies?
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2020, 11:09:33 am »
i use Crovect on the flock around beginning of June Weather dependant and again at weaning around end August, they self shead so between that time they dont have much fllece for anything to grip to. (that said it works for me and not always everybody)
i am due to get the sheep in this weekend so will for a check over as the fleeces start to come back and will probably do then until next year.

i am always a bit unsure with CLik (that said i have bnever used it) as i am not sure if i trust anything that long lasting.

having to do Crovect every 6 weeks or so gives you chance to get the sheep in and have a look over them, sort any issues out.

i have dosed the lambs the minimum amount on the bottle even if they are slightly smaller, and this hasnt had an effect on the health of the lambs   

i think the combination of the bad weather last week and the couple of warm days we have had have boosted the flies


some people may say why have sheading sheep if you are going to Crovect but like twizzel says id rather prevent flystike than deal with the aftermath.
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Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Different flies?
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2020, 12:55:49 pm »
Thanks for that, [member=4333]Fleecewife[/member] : I knew you would have wisdom to add!

I think it's twiz with the high incidence, and I can vouch for the pesky buzzers being much more prevalent and active in Cornwall than they were in the far north of England.  And I'm in North Cornwall with land that's fairly exposed. 



My apologies [member=179834]tommytink[/member] .  I hadn't been following this thread so got that wrong.  I shall modify my post.

The incidence of fly strike really does vary dramatically with climate, locality, weather, stock management and so on, and perhaps even with breed, although it's important to remember that all breeds can and will get it.  Other animals too.  Having said that, I would have expected this year to be a high incidence year for us as well as those of you in warmer areas. Here our hot, dry early spring was replaced by heavy, humid rain so I can only think that the actual low incidence was due to the good management of the farms around us (something over which we have no control).  But I am all too aware that the fly season isn't over yet.  We brought our ewes in a couple of days ago to separate out the tuplets (late I know) and everyone was fine, but the next suitable day they will all come in again for another check.
I think my advice is to stay on your toes, deal with any suspicion immediately and thoroughly. Your judgement and knowledge will increase over the years and as Twizzel and BWH say - rather no maggots than no treatment.  Flystrike is hateful, and as you have found twizzel, sometimes there's no avoiding it.
The more experience we have of our sheep and our unique holding, the easier it is to relax a bit and trust our own judgement - I don't mean relax our surveyance of the flock though, that must remain vigilant. I prefer to use Crovect over the longer lasting, more persistant products as both Mr F and I have major health issues so we avoid anything with a risk attached, but fly strike prevention is worth some risk!
« Last Edit: September 02, 2020, 01:04:04 pm by Fleecewife »
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

shep53

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Dumfries & Galloway
Re: Different flies?
« Reply #20 on: September 03, 2020, 10:48:03 am »
/quote]

 I prefer to use Crovect over the longer lasting, more persistant products as both Mr F and I have major health issues so we avoid anything with a risk attached, but fly strike prevention is worth some risk!
                    Sorry but if you both have health issues i would have thought ( cypermethrin ) a neuro toxin which is used in many insecticidal products and has a known risk to humans ( even the fumes ) would be far more of a risk than ( dicycanil ) an insect growth regulator  ,only used to treat blowfly's with as far as i can find no risk humans .  Personally i ( and many others ) cannot use alpha - cypermethrin (dysect ) as it makes me ill just from the fumes .  Crovect can destroy water proof trousers and some spray guns and burns if it gets on your skin. As you say all are a necessary evil   .   Have you tried red top fly traps ??
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 10:51:32 am by shep53 »

tommytink

  • Joined Aug 2018
Re: Different flies?
« Reply #21 on: September 03, 2020, 10:58:21 pm »
We are in a valley, so seem to get extremes of all weathers. Sometimes we can be windy which can keep the flies away. Last year we had no issues but someone on the other side of the valley had flystrike. It’s a weird place to live!
With the lambs I’ve tried to be very vigilant. The lamb I had with bad maggots had had a bad tummy but I’d cleaned him up and thought he’d be okay. I so regretted not putting anything on them and felt extremely guilty.
We timed our shearing a little later this year to end of May, and then treated ewes a month later. Prevention is definitely better than cure for us. Especially as we are new and learning the signs. We had a friend round who looked at a lamb and said reckoned it had maggots and it did. Catching it before it gets bad enough to mean the sheep is separating itself is an art we need to learn! We haven’t done too bad and have found our other cases before any bad damage. One lot yesterday inbetween toes!
Our friend, who is positioned on higher ground, has really suffered with strike as well. I think it’s just one of those years maybe.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Different flies?
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2020, 12:41:07 pm »
/quote]

 I prefer to use Crovect over the longer lasting, more persistant products as both Mr F and I have major health issues so we avoid anything with a risk attached, but fly strike prevention is worth some risk!
                    Sorry but if you both have health issues i would have thought ( cypermethrin ) a neuro toxin which is used in many insecticidal products and has a known risk to humans ( even the fumes ) would be far more of a risk than ( dicycanil ) an insect growth regulator  ,only used to treat blowfly's with as far as i can find no risk humans .  Personally i ( and many others ) cannot use alpha - cypermethrin (dysect ) as it makes me ill just from the fumes .  Crovect can destroy water proof trousers and some spray guns and burns if it gets on your skin. As you say all are a necessary evil   .   Have you tried red top fly traps ??


I haven't tried red top fly traps, no.  I can't think where I would put them as there doesn't seem to be an area here where flies congregate.  I see they are for red mite too - I wonder how that works?  I'll look into it thanks Shep53.
For Crovect, we have had no reaction ourselves in all the years we've used it but we are very careful and wear protective  clothing (and never stand downwind  :D )  I think it's hard to avoid all the dangers of using strong but effective chemicals.  I so hate flies and maggots that I accept some risk.
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

tommytink

  • Joined Aug 2018
Re: Different flies?
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2020, 02:38:02 pm »
I have put red tops in my veg garden to keep them down around the chicken pen. Not sure how well they’d work in the open fields though?

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
    • Trelay Cohousing Community
Re: Different flies?
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2020, 02:47:19 pm »
I have put red tops in my veg garden to keep them down around the chicken pen. Not sure how well they’d work in the open fields though?

I hung them in the trees in the riverside pastures in Cumbria where the headflies were an utter pest.  They caught gazillions of flies, and it did seem to reduce the nuisance to the sheep to manageable proportions.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cows (rearing their own calves for beef), pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

 

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