Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Caravan on my agricultural land  (Read 782 times)

Fraggle

  • Joined Jun 2020
Caravan on my agricultural land
« on: June 29, 2020, 09:17:20 pm »
Well I'm new at this so let's get to it, I've been given a small plot of agricultural land  all in all around 7300 Square ft, I know it's tiny but it's miles from where I live in beutifull Devon, I retire early next Yr and don't mind traveling to the land for extended periods of time, I really want to make the best of the land and have no wish to develop it for quick profit, so could I leave a caravan on it, I know I could camp on it but for how long I don't know, and what about a shed or Kind of summer house, can I just plant any fruit trees, and as its right by a lane could I put a gate in the hedge, I don't want to piss off the locals, and I don't want to live there, just have long holidays, I have no wish for any huge development just simple,
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 12:17:52 am by Fraggle »

Perris

  • Joined Mar 2017
  • Gower
Re: Caravan on my agricultural land
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2020, 07:54:26 am »
no you can't.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Caravan on my agricultural land
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2020, 10:41:50 am »
I think you can camp or use a caravan for 28 days in the year.  You would need planning permission for more, and also for any road access (which would need approval from the Highways Authority too.)

For changing use (to amenity or, I think, fruit or other garden-type use rather than agricultural) you would also need planning permission.

If you are genuinely not trying to do a Dominic Cummings (build a house that non-one notices, without planning permission, and keep it a secret until it's too late for the planning authority to put an enforcement notice on it), then your best bet is to talk to the planners or a local planning consultant, who will know what sort of things fly and don't fly in that area.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: Caravan on my agricultural land
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2020, 12:23:41 pm »
As Sally says, you can stay in your caravan for up to 28 days/year as permitted development without the need for planning. But keeping your caravan on there permanently would constitute "change of use" even though you only used it occasionally. However, if it was well screened and looked like it was just used for storage (ie not a gleaming new van) and no one complained to the planners, then you would probably get away with it.
About your proposed field entrance - the rules say you should apply for planning permission if making a new entrance onto a classified road. One planner I consulted said a classified road is any road that is classified as a road. Another said that it has to be a classified road as in an A road or a B road. However I have made 2 new entrances in different locations off minor roads and no one has said anything about it. The council only know if someone informs them or it's glaringly obvious for some reason, or you make it in a dangerous and obviously unsuitable place. When all's said and done it is not illegal to do something without planning. If discovered you can either remove what you've done or apply for retrospective planning permission.  For minor matters such as your's - you have nothing to lose. 
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow. Some say it's in England !
Re: Caravan on my agricultural land
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2020, 03:13:03 pm »
Useful thoughts from SiN & landroverroy.   My own starter four-pennies-worth:

There are some grey/
confused areas here @Fraggle

For example, allotments (horticultural activity - where, one presumes, holders are growing food and flowers for private use) do not need planning permission despite having a whole range of what are effectively permanent structures erected. However, try erecting a small permanent shed or stable, say, on otherwise bare agricultural land (development) or try extending your garden veg plot into an adjacent field (change of use) and officialdom will want to know about it!

I’m a bit fuzzy on hedges since last looking that up, but the Highways Agency would only have any authority if the adjacent road is a “Classified” one. However,
there are fairly extensive limitations on altering traditional hedges. (Dry stone walls do not count as hedges.)

May I say here; while I do believe planning laws are overly prejudiced against genuine folk who want to use, develop and (justifiably) live on their land for beneficial reasons and in a very low-key way, I am generally against random “developments” in the open country-side. However, I know of several small plots of agri’ land used very much in the way you have described (which almost certainly don’t have PP) and I personally find them quite inoffensive: they are hardly noticeable – maybe a permanent tiny wooden shed or “summer-house” and they are clean and tidy (even if a bit overgrown for much of the year!), but none that I know involve permanent siting of a caravan.

And so to your little bit of Devon - equivalent to a square plot 50’x50’ and not much agricultural use to anybody on it’s own!  The new gateway bothers me though as it suggests the plot has been hived off from some larger plot.  That begs the question of "who are your neighbours and what separates your little bit and their bit - a hedge or a see-through fence ?"
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 04:54:19 pm by arobwk »

Fraggle

  • Joined Jun 2020
Re: Caravan on my agricultural land
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2020, 11:26:44 pm »
 :tree: :tree: :fc:gives me food for thought, I just want it to be tasteful and workable, what happens if you camp forore than 28 days? OK so what can I plant, a few fruit trees?  :tree:spuds? Bushes plants hedgerow between me n the neighbours plot? Would I need change of use, what happens if you use up your 28days camping n bugger orf for a month and say camp another week or so?Thank you everyone for your input  :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 11:39:53 pm by Fraggle »

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: Caravan on my agricultural land
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2020, 11:55:23 pm »
If you camp for a while and then leave and come back later, it is highly unlikely (unless you annoy someone) that anyone will be counting exactly how many days you are actually there.
Rules are made:
  for the guidance of wise men
  and the obedience of fools.

Buttermilk

  • Joined Jul 2014
Re: Caravan on my agricultural land
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2020, 08:44:22 am »
Some people have very selective and faulty memories and may believe that you have been on the land for more than 28 days when you have only been there for 14 days.  If these people live near the land and tell others then peceived local wisdom will all be against you so keep a diary.

Puddlebrook

  • Joined Jun 2020
  • Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire
Re: Caravan on my agricultural land
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2020, 01:45:20 pm »
This is similar to what my partner and I did although we have progressed and now got planning permission. We bought a three and half acre field because it was cheap but we didn't know what to do with it. It had agricultural use only so building a house was out of the question. We decided to eventually start a sloe gin business and planted 700 blackthorn bushes. Nobody batted an eyelid in fact we got compliments on how nice it was making the area look. We put an old 1980s caravan on the field, painted it green so it didn't stand out and my partners daughter uses it as an artist studio. Nobody complained, she has now put an allotment on the side with decking area and firepit. I now have an equipment shed built (painted green) and no one has complained. I think the secret is keep it tidy and nice looking and no one will bother you but if someone does complain then you have to make it known that you will have no use for it and be forced to sell it to either a developer, gypsy, scrap metal dealer, chicken processing company etc.

arobwk

  • Joined Nov 2015
  • Kernow. Some say it's in England !
Re: Caravan on my agricultural land
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2020, 02:10:17 pm »
Ah - I see your little bit has grown over night @Fraggle  and is now equiv' to 28 x 28 yds.  (Have you just disproved that "God isn't making any more" ?  :D )

As far as I know (someone might know different), you can plant virtually whatever you like on agri' land.  It's only, I believe, when one is proposing to plant large areas (many acres) of semi-permanent mono-cultures or woodland (e.g. for bio-fuels, timber etc) that one needs to seek acceptance by various official bodies.  (We'll keep quiet about Puddlebrooks' adventures - although I'm sure there's no problem with the small acreage of black thorn actually).

I note the question-mark re planting hedgerow between you and neighbour and so I assume there isn't much between you and them at the moment:  plant a nice thick hedge asap I would suggest, subject to the following comments.

At the end of the day, your use of your bit of land for whatever purpose will be hampered by lack of a gate in your road-side hedge.  It's pretty worthless unless you can achieve ready access.  You need to look up rules and reg's for meddling with hedges and then apply to your particular road-side hedge.  Fair chance you will need officialdom to sanction alterations and there's not much point making any plans for the land until you know whether you can provide any sort of useful road-side access !! 

Just don't mention your private aspirations:  say something like planting-up as small orchard or anything similar that can viably be managed by intermittent/seasonal visits from where-ever you are.  (I personally wouldn't use allotments as a possible justification/excuse for a gateway either:  not the "tidiest" permitted land-use option so, if I were in your shoes, I would avoid inventing that as a reason for the gateway.)
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 05:54:32 pm by arobwk »

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Caravan on my agricultural land
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2020, 04:43:28 pm »
I think there are rules and regs about what constitutes legitimate agricultural use, and also what you can and can't do according to the agricultural classification.

For instance, you certainly used to need change of use to equestrian to keep exclusively horses on previously agricultural ground.  (This may have changed, I am not sure.)

When I was farming in the north of England there were certainly restrictions on ploughing some sorts of ground, and any landowner of agricultural ground could be prosecuted by Defra for failing to keep the land in good agricultural order.  There were more restrictions in the National Park (where the moorland farm was; it also had global environmental protection - RAMSAR - on the northern parts, and two SSSIs within the thousand acres) and the World Heritage corridor (where the upland farm was.; some of it was also SSSI.)

Policing and "incentivisation" was through environmental schemes and Single Farm Payment, so it may be thought that Defra would have no comeback on an owner who is not in receipt of a Single Farm Payment, as there is no payment to withhold as a penalty.  But that doesn't affect what the rules are, only whether action is likely to be taken against you ;)
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: Caravan on my agricultural land
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2020, 04:53:35 pm »
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

Woodland Warrior

  • Joined May 2020
Re: Caravan on my agricultural land
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2020, 08:36:42 pm »
Hi Fraggle,

I've had pre-planning advice from North Devon County Council last week and they didn't bat an eyelid at using agricultural land for horticultural activities, we stated fruit trees/bushes, perennials and seasonal vegetable and salad crops. New hedges, fences and woodland as well as poultry were all fine.

The questions and concerns come when it relates to structures and operations, full PP needed for polytunnels, agricultural buildings, pond and hardstanding (land less than 5ha). Poultry coop OK if not too big but don't specify what too big is...

I work in a compliance team, so try to understand and work in the spirit of the law. However I agree with the common sense approach of other comments.


 

 

long term caravan on agricultural land

Started by burningembers

Replies: 16
Views: 11897
Last post May 23, 2016, 08:50:23 am
by honeyend
Agricultural land - What can be planted?

Started by ChickenLover

Replies: 3
Views: 8226
Last post August 20, 2016, 11:40:49 pm
by BrimwoodFarm
Camping on Agricultural Land

Started by Sherbatious border

Replies: 17
Views: 11804
Last post October 06, 2016, 09:50:10 am
by greenbeast
Vehicle storage on agricultural land

Started by pottybird

Replies: 1
Views: 2985
Last post April 19, 2016, 09:52:13 pm
by bazzais
Tiny homes on agricultural land?

Started by Orinlooper

Replies: 38
Views: 10677
Last post June 07, 2020, 07:21:50 am
by Orinlooper

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Ark Farm Livestock Movement Service

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2020. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS