NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Slaughter-free breeding flock? *** potentially contentious content ***  (Read 1056 times)

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Slaughter-free breeding flock? *** potentially contentious content ***
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2020, 03:06:09 am »
Hug much appreciated  :hug:

I'm happier living at Trelay than I've ever been, but yes I do have a bit of a short fuse in the late winter months.  Not SAD, I think, but I'm a bit arthritic and it is, of course, much worse in winter - even in Cornwall!  I don't think I would be coping if I was still in Cumbria.

How annoying to be assumed to be giving your animals anything less than the best care!  I do know why some farmers and vets have this view of organic - and "chemical-free", "low input" or whatever other term folks use to try to explain what they're trying to do.  A very few farmers mishandle their stock and that gives a bad name to the whole industry and leaves many feeling unfairly judged, but they don't see the irony in them doing the same stereotyping of folks who espouse a different approach!

I think my angst at folks using "Organic" when they"re not comes from the same place as my angst about some of the "slaughter-free" yarn.  I dislike intensely any dishonesty / deception / intentional misleading / manipulation.  I guess I should probably just grow up and accept that a lot of folks do not live inside an Enid Blyton novel or on the set of Dixon of Dock Green!  lol
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing
Voss Electric Fence

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • Wester Gladstone Hebridean Sheep
Re: Slaughter-free breeding flock? *** potentially contentious content ***
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2020, 01:19:15 pm »
I'm glad you continue to be happy with your new life.  I think pain that you can't get away from is the worst thing (or maybe one of the worst things) we have to cope with.  "old age doesnae come itsel' " but the alternative is worse.  My fingers are not letting me spin at all at the moment  :spin:  and I can only knit a few rows at a time  :knit: .  But I am enjoying the first signs of Spring, even up here In The North.


My thought on the 'slaughter free yarn' question is that if people can't work out for themselves that it's a money making con, then more fool them.  They are happy in their ignorance. When I was at school and I saw that other girls were struggling to understand something, or had clearly misunderstood, then I would try to help by making out it was me who didn't get it. I always ended up in the  :poo:  with my intelligence called into question.  So I just left them to it, it's less hassle that way.  "No good deed goes unpunished"
www.scothebs.co.uk

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus - let sleeping dragons lie

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Slaughter-free breeding flock? *** potentially contentious content ***
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2020, 01:55:36 pm »
I see fleece as a product secondary to meat production.  What I mean by that is that sheep are being reared for slaughter in vast numbers, and to throw away the wool would be unacceptable.



It's perhaps important to remember that this is a relatively recent state of affairs. The British Empire (sorry) was built on the back of wool exports. Even as recently as the late 50s, wool was a very important product from sheep (the book Isolation Shepherd, for example, describes how blackface wethers were kept for their wool).


Those days are gone of course, and as I sit here in my polyester "fleece" typing away, it's not difficult to see why!
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • Wester Gladstone Hebridean Sheep
Re: Slaughter-free breeding flock? *** potentially contentious content ***
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2020, 05:24:24 pm »
I see fleece as a product secondary to meat production.  What I mean by that is that sheep are being reared for slaughter in vast numbers, and to throw away the wool would be unacceptable.



It's perhaps important to remember that this is a relatively recent state of affairs. The British Empire (sorry) was built on the back of wool exports. Even as recently as the late 50s, wool was a very important product from sheep (the book Isolation Shepherd, for example, describes how blackface wethers were kept for their wool).


Those days are gone of course, and as I sit here in my polyester "fleece" typing away, it's not difficult to see why!


Absolutely - the birth our wondrous empire  :coat: .  So in days of yore, meat was the waste product perhaps, only eaten by the poor.


I don't wear exclusively woollen clothing, in spite of promoting it so hard.  Just as a treat I'll tell you what I'm wearing today (above my pundies - you don't want to go there  :roflanim: ) So, woollen vest, synthetic technical vest, (yes, 2 vests), cashmere jumper, thick cotton shirt, hand spun, hand dyed, hand knit big woolly jumper, and outdoors a technical 4 seasons synthetic coat, fleece lined.  Legs, winter lined technical fabric trousers, woolly socks, rubber boots, woolly hat and scarf, leather bike gloves.  I apologise to the environment for the cotton shirt, cotton being the worst crop, just after rice, for water and chemical use.



www.scothebs.co.uk

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus - let sleeping dragons lie

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Slaughter-free breeding flock? *** potentially contentious content ***
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2020, 05:44:24 pm »
So, woollen vest, synthetic technical vest, (yes, 2 vests), cashmere jumper, thick cotton shirt, hand spun, hand dyed, hand knit big woolly jumper, and outdoors a technical 4 seasons synthetic coat, fleece lined.




Stop it! You're turning me on!  :roflanim:

So in days of yore, meat was the waste product perhaps, only eaten by the poor.


I'm afraid I don't know the split in revenue between wool and meat in those days, but I suspect meat (or at least the best cuts) would have been the preserve of the rich. The poor would have eaten oatmeal etc, or I guess the cheaper cuts made into things like haggis? 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 05:52:10 pm by Womble »
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

macgro7

  • Joined Feb 2016
Re: Slaughter-free breeding flock? *** potentially contentious content ***
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2020, 09:15:35 pm »
That reminds me a bit of free range milk I saw in Asda.
Or eggs from "vegetarian hens" which I consider cruelty to hens.
We sell vegetarian wool - 100% acrylic lol
Sheep are vegetarian and even natural sheep wool is vegetarian - it contains 0% meat  :sheep:
Growing loads of fruits and vegetables! Raising dairy goats, chickens, ducks, geese rabbits and a little boy on 1/2 acre in the middle of the city of Leicester, using permaculture methods.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Slaughter-free breeding flock? *** potentially contentious content ***
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2020, 10:38:16 pm »
That reminds me a bit of free range milk I saw in Asda.

Actually there are now herds of dairy cattle which are housed year round.  It's been the only way to avoid bTB for some farmers  :'(

And of course, they have to be housed for the anaerobic digester schemes  :rant: :rant: 

So yes, if you want your cows eating grass as it grows, rather than having it delivered to their feeder, buy organic or free range milk.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Slaughter-free breeding flock? *** potentially contentious content ***
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2020, 10:40:09 pm »
Or eggs from "vegetarian hens" which I consider cruelty to hens.

True!  People who feed their dogs and or cats vegetarian diets too  ::)
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • Wester Gladstone Hebridean Sheep
Re: Slaughter-free breeding flock? *** potentially contentious content ***
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2020, 11:12:06 pm »
So, woollen vest, synthetic technical vest, (yes, 2 vests), cashmere jumper, thick cotton shirt, hand spun, hand dyed, hand knit big woolly jumper, and outdoors a technical 4 seasons synthetic coat, fleece lined.




Stop it! You're turning me on!  :roflanim:




And there I thought it was the rubber wellies that would get you  :eyelashes:
www.scothebs.co.uk

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus - let sleeping dragons lie

messyhoose

  • Joined Nov 2017
Re: Slaughter-free breeding flock? *** potentially contentious content ***
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2020, 01:52:02 am »
wow that really is something that can not be answered with a quick sentence. I applied to Trelay some years ago but decided community living was not for me. Plus they mistakenly accused me of chasing their chickens (in fact i was trying not to fall over while walking a mud path and a hen kept going in the same direction i was going, but i felt truely hurt to the bone that someone would think i would be so thoughtless ).  i was vegan in the 90s and it was a biology field trip and seeing lambs playing in the field that made me realise i could not condone eating  meat, even though as a zoologist i accepted we are meat eaters. I have more respect for someone who hunts and eats that meat than someone who is in denial and gets all their meat pre packed in plastic. Indeed as a vegan i feel contradicted knowing i have killed more animals (sick hens, injured wildlife)  than my meat eating town dwellling friends.I now work with wool (in order to live where i do and support the sheep here) and know that is not vegan. But i do also buy wool from animal sanctuaries- sheep saved from markets and slaughter- it is truely vegan as no animal has been exploited in its harvesting. That is the definition  of veganism- no animal is explioited. However i was repulsed by a tv prog about a vegan couple who "rescued" london pigeons- these birds were too infirm to be released into the wild so this couple kept them caged in their back garden! Yes there is controversy in all directions- lying farmers, in denial vegans- maybe its a human condition to be incapable of accepting the flaws in your actions. Id like to say its not just vegan "bandwagon" stuff that is mislabelled as farmed produce has been for decades (the pastoral images of hens in field on packs of battery eggs for instance). FYI (go in CIFW website) there is a cow dairy claiming to be vegan. They say no-one is killed- the calves are kept and everyone lives a natural lifespan. Thats all very commendable- but how many humans ca that support, unless they start keeping their cows in cages......ergo if it involves animals then space is needed. Truely the only way for an increasing human race is veganism, and i as a vegan will still be sad to see a countryside deplete of animals :(

Bramham Wiltshire Horns

  • Joined Oct 2014
  • leeds
  • Bramham flock Wiltshire Horns
Re: Slaughter-free breeding flock? *** potentially contentious content ***
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2020, 02:50:53 pm »
HI Sally

i may or may not be answering your Question Properly but here goes

the way i see it if you are not slaughtering the sheep but using them for wool then you are still farming the Animal in one way or other- you are using a by product of the animal to make gain from it whether it be for your own use or profit

so keeping sheep for wool or meat is no different,

i think the people that sell just as breeding sheep in a non-slaughter farm are been irresponsible in the fact that it makes them feel better that they havent slaughteed the animal and the responibilty lies with the buyer
also there is a good chance they are selling stock that are not upto standard and flooding the breed with poor standard animals

hope this makes sense

GBov

  • Joined Nov 2019
Re: Slaughter-free breeding flock? *** potentially contentious content ***
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2020, 05:39:02 pm »
So, woollen vest, synthetic technical vest, (yes, 2 vests), cashmere jumper, thick cotton shirt, hand spun, hand dyed, hand knit big woolly jumper, and outdoors a technical 4 seasons synthetic coat, fleece lined.




Stop it! You're turning me on!  :roflanim:

So in days of yore, meat was the waste product perhaps, only eaten by the poor.


I'm afraid I don't know the split in revenue between wool and meat in those days, but I suspect meat (or at least the best cuts) would have been the preserve of the rich. The poor would have eaten oatmeal etc, or I guess the cheaper cuts made into things like haggis?

Sheep were kept for their entire working - ie wool producing - lives and then eaten.  Eating lamb would have been seen as an insane waste of wool because wool = money.  And in addition to the wasted income, lamb was considered to have no flavor as it had not lived long enough to have any taste worth the eating.

As to cheaper cuts for the poor, the instructions for cooking sheep's heads say it all - "Prepare sheep's head as normal....."

Vegan wool eh?  :roflanim:

As to marketing ANYTHING falsely, my bottomless caldera of rage boils at the thought!  :rant:







 

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