[pgkevet]

I was offered an attractive managed fund for a couple of hundred K with that same nice gentleman but decided to put it elsewhere....my commiserations.
I think I read somewhere that Warren Buffet advised his wife - should she outlive him - to just put the money into a market tracker rather then allow it to be managed. So long as such investment is long enough in term to outride the crashes. If you look back at the FTSE charts from 1990 to now it's 4 times despite the 2008 crash that halved it for a while. So that follows your 7% rule

[pharnorth]

It is an interesting topic

I retired from the main job at 53. Partly out of petulance as the Government put the retirement age up to 55 and the State Pension towards infinity. Did some consultancy for 3 or 4 years to buy nice audi and offset the guilt of not 'working'.  I could do this largely because of doing in part what Womble says, investing early to enable it. Nonetheless people think you are 'lucky'. I really enjoyed my career but a lifetime can be enriched by having a variety of experiences.

I retired to the smallholding. For several years before this we invested in solar panels, heat source pump, fencing, re moving asbestos cladding and replacing with steel. A lot of those ROI calculations need to be considered in relation to when they pay back.  For example heat source pump 9 years after making the investment the capital is close to repaid but the payback continues for the lifetime of the system and at a time which it is most useful for us.

[henchard]

We retired at 55 bought a small holding and do what the hell we want, when we want including travelling and some philanthropic arts sponsorship.
There is no magic to it we both had fairly good jobs with pensions that we took early (reduced of course) but the main funding came from selling a large house in Dorset and buying a smallholding in Wales for half the price.
The fact is that anyone in the south east of the UK could, if they were so minded (luckily most aren't) sell their house and buy a smaller place in the rest of the UK and be left with a large lump of capital.
Really much of it is the luck of the draw. I could have been born in many of the African countries, such as Chad, where most people don't live to 50.

[alang]

The fact is that anyone in the south east of the UK could, if they were so minded (luckily most aren't) sell their house and buy a smaller place in the rest of the UK and be left with a large lump of capital.

That's great for you southern folk then. Shame us lower paid northerners have to only dreams at being able to sell our houses and have a massive wad of cash to be able to move to a cheaper area and buy a smallholding.

Sorry for the rant but your comments imho came across a little condescending and smacked of smugness.

[chrismahon]

Based on my experience Alang, the English population of what is called 'Dordogneshire' come from the Southeast of England. Buying big houses with lots of land for reasons that escape me. We certainly couldn't manage properties like that.


We're from the North, so we have the smallholding without the remaining capital. But why would we need remaining capital?

[pharnorth]

Oh [member=174648]alang[/member] you are right but also so wrong.... FIRE is inherently smug and condescending since it requires an income in excess of essential needs. I call my own moments of self congratulations my smug moments. Like the lovely half hour on top of Ben Nevis this summer. Smug yes. But not without considerable effort. Condescending to those that sit at the bottom and would like to reach the top but don't bother to make the effort. Never intentionally condescending to the many who have not got the ability, the time or their energy is needed elsewhere.
The south east property bubble comes at a high cost. Many are hugely envious of your space and freedoms. The next generation probably won't have the escape route henchard mentions as early retirement deals happen less and a 2 bed home within 20 miles of me are all over £300,000 and often sold 'shared ownership' so no downsizing move to a cheaper area bonanza for those folk in their pocket gardens. They can only dream of your lifestyle.

[henchard]

Sorry for the rant but your comments imho came across a little condescending and smacked of smugness.

Really?
I'd specifically said that it was the luck of the draw and that to all intents and purposes everyone in the UK was lucky compared to much of the developing world.

I didn't say it was a 'good' or even 'desirable' thing; in fact I think it's criminal that the housing ponzi bubble allows this to happen and stops youngsters affording decent homes. But that is what exists at present.

[Fleecewife]

<<< FIRE is inherently smug and condescending since it requires an income in excess of essential needs >>>

Thanks pharnorth for that.  I already posted at the beginning of this thread what happened to us, but I have to say that we are immensely happy as we are, with no big financial surplus to cushion us.  Fortunately we were already firmly established on our smallholding before the disasters struck, and here we hope to be able to stay.  It is hard work, and we can't afford to pay anyone to help us out, so we do as much as we can and we get by.  It's a great life.  Sometimes I think that too much rigid planning is asking for trouble.

[doganjo]

. So long as such investment is long enough in term to outride the crashes. If you look back at the FTSE charts from 1990 to now it's 4 times despite the 2008 crash that halved it for a while. So that follows your 7% rule

That's how a chunk of my money got lost - managed by Clydesdale bank, but like everyone else they were caught in the crash

[pharnorth]

Fleecewife you have my respect and admiration. My own heroine is my late grandmother widowed in the Great War, single mother of one and survived 70 years on a war pension and waitressing.  She would have been dryly amused by these self indulgent concepts having come from 'dirt poor' labouring family but very impressed by the shared drive on TAS to make a better more natural life for ourselves whether we jumped or were pushed into it.

[pgkevet]

That's how a chunk of my money got lost - managed by Clydesdale bank, but like everyone else they were caught in the crash

I was very annoyed by the crash - mostly 'cos I'd been forcasting it for 7 or 8 yrs before it happened and got lulled by the 'crack papering' that was going on and also failed to anticpate the move to low interests afterwards instead of the previous approach of cranking them up. So I got caught like everyone else with a pension pot that got halved, a  business i sold at a fair rate so the newcomer could finance it out of it's profits - and of course they soon got a lovely low interest deal and raked the loot in. That and the southern housing price rise (becasue of those low rates) that meant that the house I'd sold for 1/2 mill went up to 1 mill inside 3 yrs whereas the place we bought here hasn't moved. At least the pension pots have mostly recovered.
I was brought up by 'careful' parents and respect hard work. I also have every sympathy for the genuinely underprivilleged or disabled but very little tolerance for those complaining how hard they have it while spending weekends in working mens clubs/pubs boozing and feeling entitled to flash weddings and holidays abroad etc. My first many years working and employed on a better than most salary but i still traded most of my holidays in for locum work to build a buffer and like many here would get home late and be up a ladder wire brushing the guttering or DIY improvements.

[Goatherd]

  A view from the other side I have been in farming all my life now 70 my farther was a farm worker owned nothing
  But i wanted my own farm by the age of 30  I put myself through collage worked my way up to farm manager
  on route keeping livestock and did get my own place have traded up a couple of time to what i have now always
  been down south  I have two children 31 and 28 both hate farming don't want to be wet cold long hours and no
  money I always thought they would take over and i would just help out  With repairs renewals and expansion
  never bothered with pension always something else to pay for  I could sell up and retire but what would i do all
  day at the moment i start at 4.30 in the morning and go to 9.00 to 9.30 at night can't afford help at min wage
  children still live at home Why do farmers do it its the challenge will it grow  will it give milk  make it better
  mend it   and beat the weather  at the moment biggest challenge is to pay the elec bill
   Set your self a target go for it and look i made it not sure what to do with it now but

[pgkevet]

WEll done.Neither of my kids was up to following in my different footsteps - would have had a splid business and good future but not prepared to work hours.What you built up and can go look at is your own accomplishment, investment in yourself and be proud. OK I retired to this small farm (your age now) but even though it's just a hobby farm I walk out into the fields in the summer, gaze at the scenery and pat myself on the back for what I have from simple enough beginnings.Yeah, It's a shame that my kids will just flog it when i croak but there's no point in worrying about stuff like that any more than being nostalgic about any other past house or bit of kit. Frankly my best legacy will be the nut trees for future generations.

[Womble]

FIRE is inherently smug and condescending since it requires an income in excess of essential needs.

Yes, I do see that point of view. For anybody on a low wage, it's not going to be practical to live on only a portion of it and invest the rest.


However, let's say you're on twice that wage? Is it any really more smug and condescending to live off half of what you earn and save the rest than it would be to spend all of what you earn, i.e. to live exactly within your means?

[pharnorth]

FIRE is inherently smug and condescending since it requires an income in excess of essential needs.

Yes, I do see that point of view. For anybody on a low wage, it's not going to be practical to live on only a portion of it and invest the rest.

However, let's say you're on twice that wage? Is it any really more smug and condescending to live off half of what you earn and save the rest than it would be to spend all of what you earn, i.e. to live exactly within your means?

Hi [member=2128]Womble[/member] , it was meant as a statement rather than a judgement, yours is equally true. It is bucketing down outside at present. The old fashioned saying was 'save for a rainy day' , that always had smug/ sensible conortations too.  My personal philosophy has always been to aim to balance the efforts & pleasure of the present with the needs and pleasures of the future.  But these FIRE dialogues need some awareness that saving is addictive and there are a lot of people out there who haven't the means for the present.  And also the context since internet is international: In the UK tax aims to offset that but in the USA in particular they have a low tax system that relies on philanthropy and it is far more common to be asked for donations.