NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: dog tooth decay  (Read 589 times)

UPoneacre

  • Joined Nov 2013
  • Llanidloes, Powys
dog tooth decay
« on: November 01, 2019, 08:49:48 pm »
An odd question perhaps but does anyone have any experience of a rapid rate of decay in a dog's teeth?

What has prompted this is that one of our dogs was suffering from bad breath some months ago and when my partner took it to the vet for a dental examination the advice given was that it was due to plaque being present and daily brushing was needed using an 'enzyme toothpaste' - not one I'd heard of before. Nothing else mentioned.

Move on four months and still bad breath so back the same vets, different vet, and this time we're told our dog has four decaying molars which need to come out. On the day the vet tells us more tooth problems - up to ten need to come out; in the end only eight but we were still deeply shocked by that.

When we questioned why this had changed so drastically from earlier advice we were told it was not unusual for dog's teeth to deteriorate that fast. I still can't believe that statement and we're now questioning what has occurred; more worryingly all sorts of doubts are now coming to mind.

Maybe that can happen but I'd be interested to hear of anyone else's experiences/views. Btw our dogs are fed on dry food - Purina Pro Adult Sensitive, and nothing else.
Voss Electric Fence

Buttermilk

  • Joined Jul 2014
Re: dog tooth decay
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2019, 08:48:03 am »
I have greyhounds and they are notorious for bad teeth.  Ex racers they have a dental before rehoming.  My current one had bad breath after 3 years and needed 25 teeth out.  This despite dental chews and toothpaste.  Eight months later he needed a further 2 teeth removing, including one of his canine teeth.  He has gone a year now since then and despite some very discoloured teeth they are still sound according to the vet at his vaccination visit.

The answer is bad teeth can really be the luck of the draw.

PipKelpy

  • Joined Mar 2019
  • North Shropshire
  • Dreamer with docile cattle and sheep!
Re: dog tooth decay
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2019, 07:29:04 am »
Agree with luck of the draw!

One of the "conditions" for dental payouts with Petplan is regular checks etc. My 2 get their knashers cleaned everyday with virbac enzymatic. The only time it doesn't happen is for a few days after a bad seizure do with the 1 dog due to her being sedated, so teeth aren't top priority!

However, saying this, her breath is fine! Now the other, apart from the lovely puppy breath she had all those doggy years ago, now has what I lovingly call Dragon breath!!

It got that bad 3 years ago, I told the vet to clean them! When she came home, it was minus 2 teeth! Apparently they were severely rotten! We had noticed she was having trouble munching her daily carrot, so went for trip to vet!

A little back tooth dropped out several weeks ago and she looked at it and then looked at me! It stunk to high heaven but the mouth smelt better! Her front bottom teeth also stick out, she now has the nickname 'goofy toofy'! When they drop out, she's better not swallow them!

They both scoff the same food so why her breath is yucky is beyond me!
Halter train the cattle to keep them quiet but watch your back when they come a'bulling! Give them all names even those you plan to eat. Always be calm. Most importantly, invest in wellies with steel toe caps and be prepared for the clever cow who knows where the toe caps end!!

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
  • Qui? Moi?
    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
    • Facebook
Re: dog tooth decay
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2019, 12:14:00 pm »
Don't worry about swallowing teeth - do you ever see puppy ones?  :innocent:

My 15 year old girl has very badly decayed teeth but she can still munch up her kibble - i just buy small dog now instead of the normal size stuff.  She never seems in pain and there's no way she's being anaesthetised to fix them at that age and with a heart murmur.  And both she and my youngster have always had regular dental chews, although I don't brush their teeth.(and she has extra teeth inside her as she just crunched my own dental plate - dentist for me tomorrow afternoon  >:( >:( >:(  )
I'm not convinced these are much more than tasty 'sweeties' to them to be honest.  They also both get shin bones and she manages those too.
As to the rate of decay I'm not sure - perhaps change in diet where they are getting less calcium might cause a deficiency?

I have always in my 75 years devoured as much milk, cheese and yoghurt as i can get, yet I have osteoporosis - so perhaps it is just the luck of the draw.
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

UPoneacre

  • Joined Nov 2013
  • Llanidloes, Powys
Re: dog tooth decay
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2019, 03:45:20 pm »
Well thank you all for your thoughts on that and I'm sorry to hear of your respective dogs' experiences with tooth loss. It does seem to be a case of 'pot luck' after all. Ours seems to be dealing with it fairly happily, maybe a bit wary of biting on anything really hard, but otherwise eating ok and seems to be much more lively now.

Thanks again

Steph Hen

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Angus Scotland.
Re: dog tooth decay
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2019, 04:10:17 pm »
I believe the problem is processed dog food and am not convinced about the dentistix type products.
I base this upon the observations of western price which I realise are unreplicatable, somewhat bias set of human observations but recon this is where the truth is.

sabrina

  • Joined Nov 2008
Re: dog tooth decay
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2019, 07:30:02 pm »
I also believe it is todays dog food. My late Jack Russell had 10 teeth removed. I was so shocked. We had a Burmese cat who also lost a lot of teeth which the vet told me was very common in her breed. We started looking into pet food, most has added sugar. Why? I now cook for my dogs.

pgkevet

  • Joined Jul 2011
Re: dog tooth decay
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2019, 10:24:11 pm »
I'd just like to make the point that dental decay is actually uncommon in dogs - from the purist viewpoint that that should mean cavities. I have seen a few cases, usually lower cheek teeth in larger breed dogs and indeed I've filled a few. The most common problem (in dogs) is gingivitis, pocketing, recession and ultimately loosening of teeth. It's pretty common in the small breeds starting typically with incisors then the rest. Often associated with clumps of their own fur being stuck around the teeth. In Spaniels it typically starts upper canines and is associated with labial secondary infection and maceration as infected saliva runs down. In the larger breeds it's most often manifest first on the outer sides of cheek teeth with tartar buildup there being aided by closeness to the openings of saliva ducts.
Yes, diet will have a significant effect. The act of tearing and chewing at a  carcass will floss teeth quite well but does also lead to all the problems of eating unbalanced and unsterilised diets and obstructions from bone chunks and fragments - or we'd all be advocating raw meaty bones.
I'm as guilty as the next with laziness about chucking pre-packaged food at my dog. Undoubtedly the nutritional balance of good variants has extended our pets lives so if planning on cooking for the dog then either make sure your diet is correct - and inportantly take the opportunity to create variety since that gives you a  better chance to avoid a nutritional deficiency and helps to reduce the development of allergies.
You could say similar about us - we'd likely have ar better teeth that didnlt need brushing if we only ate raw food and avoided worms and salmonella.

sabrina

  • Joined Nov 2008
Re: dog tooth decay
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2019, 10:22:24 am »
The foods I cook are beef mince, lamb mince, chicken and fish. I add mixed veg, sweet potato sometimes rice or pasta along with grated cheese. Our collie and collie cross are both middle age now and never needed the vet. Before I started doing this we lost 3 dogs all to cancer 2 of which were under 8 years old. I will admit it cost quite a bit more to feed like this but to me it is worth it to have healthy happy dogs. Many years ago I fed my working dogs boiled sheeps heads that I bought from our local butcher, also dog mince. It was not until I started on the tin dog food and the dry stuff that I saw a huge change in the health of my dogs. After doing lots of research on what went into pet food we decided to change back.

doganjo

  • Joined Aug 2012
  • Clackmannanshire
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    • ABERDON GUNDOGS for work and show
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Re: dog tooth decay
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2019, 10:46:28 am »
The foods I cook are beef mince, lamb mince, chicken and fish. I add mixed veg, sweet potato sometimes rice or pasta along with grated cheese. Our collie and collie cross are both middle age now and never needed the vet. Before I started doing this we lost 3 dogs all to cancer 2 of which were under 8 years old. I will admit it cost quite a bit more to feed like this but to me it is worth it to have healthy happy dogs. Many years ago I fed my working dogs boiled sheeps heads that I bought from our local butcher, also dog mince. It was not until I started on the tin dog food and the dry stuff that I saw a huge change in the health of my dogs. After doing lots of research on what went into pet food we decided to change back.
How do you know how much to give them?  I have one that would eat till she was sick, eat that then eat more
Always have been, always will be, a WYSIWYG - black is black, white is white - no grey in my life! But I'm mellowing in my old age

pgkevet

  • Joined Jul 2011
Re: dog tooth decay
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2019, 11:31:12 am »
How do you know how much to give them?  I have one that would eat till she was sick, eat that then eat more
Use common sense and observation. Even with prepackaged stuff the advice is usually too much. As with all things it depends on degree of working, age and health status - and how much whining you can put up with (if you own my dalmatian who is overweight).
Do any of us sit down nd work out the minimum daily requirements for vits/mins/fats/calories etc for our own diet unless you have a special problem and dietician's charts?

Steph Hen

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Angus Scotland.
Re: dog tooth decay
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2019, 07:36:05 am »
I hate how deskilled we've become. People have been keeping dogs and cats for millennia, my great grandmother never fed cat food, pig pellets, chick crumb, pony cubes or dog food. I feel we've been told we have to feed pet food much like we've been convinced children need rafts of plastic and soft toys. The PDSA website says not to attempt to feed your pet yourself; to buy a propietry pet food.  Though it's fine for me to feed myself and children.
My husband was at a lecture by Graeme Sait in Edinburgh last year who said over the last hundred years average Australian dogs' lifespan has halved. They used to live to something like 14 or 16 and now average 7 or 8. Breeding, lifestyle, obesity, etc, etc, I know data won't be great for back then but surely we'd hope the trend would have gone the opposite way.

pgkevet

  • Joined Jul 2011
Re: dog tooth decay
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2019, 08:40:24 am »
Nostalgia when the only takeaway was the rare treat of fish and chips. There was a chinese - just the one in the county but it was sit-down only. And then..and then.. wait for it...they gave planning permissiom for a ...Wimpy. At least that was sit-down, albeit in nasty uncomfortable booths but the rot had started.

UPoneacre

  • Joined Nov 2013
  • Llanidloes, Powys
Re: dog tooth decay
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2019, 10:02:19 am »
Back to the decay, then :-)

landroverroy

  • Joined Oct 2010
Re: dog tooth decay
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2019, 01:14:35 pm »
I recently read a very interesting article on Vit D and its role in preventing tooth decay. Alright it was related to human teeth but still worth reading.
Apparently bread contains some chemicals called Phytates which draw essential minerals from the teeth and so render them more susceptible to cavities and decay. If you add vit D3 to the diet, but still feed bread/cereal products, the rate of decay is reduced and you actually get some natural healing of cavities. If you exclude all bread/cereals form the diet but still feed vitD3 then no further cavities appear and those already existing start to heal.


So - I personally have cut down on bread. I can't manage without it entirely, but apparently sour dough bread is ok as the fermentation denatures the phytates. And  I take several sprays of a very pleasant mint flavoured vit D3 spray daily, and am waiting for my teeth to regenerate. :excited: (Will report on that later.)


However, it is not improbable that dogs teeth may also be improved by choosing a diet that does not include cereals (there are several reasonably priced ones on the market) and by adding say cod liver oil as a source of additional vit D
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