Agri Vehicles Insurance from Greenlands

Author Topic: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?  (Read 3027 times)

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« on: October 29, 2019, 03:27:50 pm »
Climate Change again, so please bear with me (I hate that expression  ::) )


So, Climate Change is most definitely with us, it's real, it's happening and it is beginning to impact our lives. We all have to accept that now, whether you believe it is caused by humanity or is a natural occurrence.
One of the major effects of the global changing climate is that food will become more difficult to grow, at least in the ways we are used to.  Wetter weather, drier weather, more frosts, fewer frosts, deserts popping up, low lying land disappearing under the sea, all that and more, and it adds up to a problem with growing our food.  I touched on this in a previous post.
It would appear that there is a large proportion of folk in this world of ours who actually dislike working on the land and producing the food we all eat.  Weird and hard for us on TAS to understand, but it seems to be true.  This is often a reason given for why we have to mechanise and go high tech for food production. 


But is it? My preference is that yes, the major staples such as wheat, sorghum, even rice and maybe potatoes and maize, can be produced by robotic machines, set up to care for the land in minute detail.  It saves some poor bod having to sit on a tractor all his life getting pressure sores on his bum.


Green food though really needs to be produced locally to save on transport costs and pollution, and to ensure freshness.  Producing market garden type crops though requires quite a lot of labour and if today's snowflakes don't want to use their muscles or breathe fresh air, then how to we go about planting and harvesting our greens?  Here in Britain we are losing our cheap labour from EU countries where they have a different work ethic, so our crisis is very nearly upon us.


During WW2, we had conscription, following an initial phase of voluntary joiners.  Mainly men were either sent to the Front to be cannon fodder or down the mines which was probably not the better option.  Mainly women were sent to work in munitions and plane or tank construction, or to food production ie the Land Army.
The crisis we are facing is not just a national one caused by war, this time it's a global crisis and potential catastrophe caused by our inbuilt sense of entitlement (to turn everthing to our use with no thought)   So, we need a big social change to make those who don't want to chip in and get their hands dirty to do so.  I really think it's come to that.  Instead of the military, because we don't want war, do we, we would have two streams for conscription:  Environmental work and food production.  Two years, say, when all young people who are physically and mentally able to do this, work to make this huge but vital contribution to society.  Those going onto the land, would spend Year 1 on the farms, growing and harvesting crops, then in Year 2 they would progress to packaging, preserving and distributing food.  Those working on environmental programmes would have a similar progression.  At the end of their conscription years, people would either go back to their previous lives, or they could seek careers in the food industry, based on their service history.
I see this as a way to prepare young people for survival in the world they will be living in, but also a way of using fit young bodies to do the hard work of food production.


So what do you think?  Would Government be prepared to re-introduce conscription on those terms?  Would people accept it?  Would it solve the original problem?


Again this is not a new idea.
Mr F has already brought up the question of whether it would be volunteers or conscriptees who worked in slaughter houses........












« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 03:31:20 pm by Fleecewife »
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

Steph Hen

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Angus Scotland.
Re: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2019, 07:02:55 pm »
Brexit and resulting weak pound have meant the casual workers have headed home. We cannot get British people to stick for even a day picking over potatoes for £9 or £10 an hour. They come but only last for a couple of hours, get tired and walk out. A friend of my husband recruited 20 and after a week only one was left.

pgkevet

  • Joined Jul 2011
Re: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2019, 07:07:27 pm »
Firstly there is a US startup growing green stuff indoors with lights and automation and on stacked vertical systems.Secondly you know it's my personal rant but reality is that you can't put the genie back into the bottle easily and with the sort of parliamentarians we have and the age of PC and every groups feeling insulted over evey issue then the sort of idea you have is a non-starter UNTIL a collapse happens - as in after the event rather than before.Sadly the idea of austerity only affects the underprivileged minority that the expanded 'middle class' don't really care about. When I say class there was a time when buidlers, plumbers, brickies, factory workers were all working class.. now they have all been elevated by gov to this expamded middle and there isn't a working class any more - just the unemployed or struggling class that get the brunt of austerity while every one else is protected by low interest rates and encouraged to spend, spend to keep the stupidity of a capilalism believing that GDP is a valid figure. The only valid figure is national debt.

alang

  • Joined Nov 2017
  • Morayshire
Re: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2019, 07:54:08 pm »
We cannot get British people to stick for even a day picking over potatoes for £9 or £10 an hour. They come but only last for a couple of hours, get tired and walk out. A friend of my husband recruited 20 and after a week only one was left.

I can never understand that mentality. When i was unemployed i applied for loads of jobs. so many that even my employment supervisor told me i didn't have to as i was doing far more than was expected of me to get my benefits. But i hated being on the dole and took temp work at minimum wage just to get some  pride back and earn money. for £9-£10 p/h i'd have loved that. I'm not afraid of a hard days graft so maybe that is wear we differ.
I'm not scared to be seen, I make no apologies. This is me!

Perris

  • Joined Mar 2017
  • Gower
Re: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2019, 09:19:24 am »
FW: your luck's in! They've just called an election - why not stand?  :P

pgkevet

  • Joined Jul 2011
Re: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2019, 10:16:19 am »
In James Blish's Utopia anyone could ask to be mayor. If no-one took the job on then a citizen was randomly selected. There were voting booths all over town and if the mayor ever got more than 5? votes against his policies then his chain of office exploded and a new candidate was selected...There was no crime because there was no law.- so one made sure to stay friendly with everyone so that if anyone stole or injured you your friends would hunt them down...
My own view on current politics is that our systems are actually undemocratic (but that's another argument) however in the event of a hung parliament I strongly advocate that's what should happen - to the lot of them - and start afresh :excited:

harmony

  • Joined Feb 2012
Re: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2019, 10:21:57 am »

Can you imagine the risk assessment for that?


I think pgkevet is correct that the genie will not go back in the bottle. I also think that the young are the opportunity to make sustainable changes. We have to implement a system that educates them throughout their years at school about their environment and the climate etc. We have to look at the curriculum and include life skills and work ethic. We have to get teachers out of their box and give them a system that lets them have kitchen gardens and grow food. Whilst we need standards around delivery and performance we also need young adults coming out of school that can help themselves, contribute to communities, are prepared to work and look after the world around them. They have to understand that their futures are not something they are given but something they earn.


We need families to teach their children too and that is possibly one of the hardest changes to make. Family time can be in very short supply. Unfortunately, there isn't a quick solution.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2019, 11:05:43 am »



I hear you all, but I fear that we have reached and passed so many tipping points that we simply don't have time to do things the slow, pleasant way.  By the time we get there politely there will be little the new generations can do except suffer and blame us - and we deserve blame.
I also think that our esteemed Government will have this idea, all discussed and details worked out, waiting in a box in the cupboard, ready to be hauled out and imposed on us with no notice.  We are creeping ever closer to a dictatorship......maybe that's the only thing which will save us all, an Earth Dictator  :knit:
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

Steph Hen

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Angus Scotland.
Re: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2019, 11:10:47 am »
The young are hurting because they've been brought up with everything but are now seeing the costs and feel powerless.
Local school has posters for saving polar bears and switching off lights for climate change, "act now!" right next to lit and chilled vending machines full of snacks and drinks in plastic bottles and a swimming pool.

They want to fly to Disneyland but feel enormous guilt for their air miles.
I feel sorry for the youth facing the choice.

Anke

  • Joined Dec 2009
  • St Boswells, Scottish Borders
Re: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2019, 11:40:28 am »



I hear you all, but I fear that we have reached and passed so many tipping points that we simply don't have time to do things the slow, pleasant way.  By the time we get there politely there will be little the new generations can do except suffer and blame us - and we deserve blame.
But the oldies will not be around to be blamed... so who of them actually cares? (This is meant in jest I add!)

Steph Hen

  • Joined Jul 2013
  • Angus Scotland.
Re: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2019, 11:46:36 am »
Also, did you see this FW? Post of mine from another thread

I went to A lecture by prof dieter helm last week. He has a solution and it's passed the initial rung of government to be discussed and finalised post brexit. Basically there would be a carbon tax calculated for everything including imports. Farmers would be subsidised for positive environmental action or sequestration carbon, not simply producing food. Chemical fertiliser inputs would be taxed while those maintaining or creating pasture which sequests carbon would receive money.
The system might mean the likes of British woollen clothes might have a fair chance against polyester or cotton from Asia.
The 'low hanging fruit' as he put it are things like more insulation, electric cars and efficient appliances. Taxing the alternatives while subsidising the preferred choices would create the change and hopefully the 'sustainable growth' which the government talks about.


I can't copy the link but this Google search brings it up:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dieter+helm+lecture+edinburgh+youtube&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari
Well worth a watch. I didn't enjoy Rossana Cummings section; I struggle to believe a word ministers say (the prof also straightens out a few of her statistics).
Modify message

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2019, 12:23:19 am »



I hear you all, but I fear that we have reached and passed so many tipping points that we simply don't have time to do things the slow, pleasant way.  By the time we get there politely there will be little the new generations can do except suffer and blame us - and we deserve blame.
But the oldies will not be around to be blamed... so who of them actually cares? (This is meant in jest I add!)


I have heard some people saying just that: "I won't be around then so why should I care?"  But actually there is an enormous number of older folk who really do care - not sure if they balance all those who don't give a tinker's.  Of those people I know, it's often the parents, who are so busy earning enough to keep their children well supplied with whatever they want, that they don't have time to even think about anything to do with climate change.  Equally there are loads of folk in that same category who really do care and don't want to hand a broken world on to their children.







"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

Fleecewife

  • Joined May 2010
  • South Lanarkshire
    • ScotHebs
Re: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2019, 12:38:43 am »
Hi Steph, yes I did see your original post and i even looked up more about  Dr Dieter Helm.  I think something like that would help with making people do more to help mitigate climate change.  It seems that only central laws will actually make people change, rather than appealing to their better nature.  Hence my idea of a national service for food production.


I've been thinking about the opinions posters have expressed, especially the 'you can't get the genie back in the bottle', but I don't agree.  It's not long since we had national service here - it went on quite a while after WW2 ended, into the late '50s I think, it was definitely still around when I was a child. 
Wiki says: <<< Conscription in the United Kingdom has existed for two periods in modern times. The first was from 1916 to 1920, the second from 1939 to 1960, with the last conscripted soldiers leaving the service in 1963.>>>
People found it a bit of a nuisance, but most just accepted it, a bit like going on to College before getting on with their lives.  The discipline necessary to run national service, partly because it was attached to the military I suppose, was good for young people and helped then to learn a bit of how to organise their lives.  I'm sure it could be introduced again for food production once we really are stuck after we leave the EU.


« Last Edit: October 31, 2019, 12:41:57 am by Fleecewife »
"Let's not talk about what we can do, but do what we can"

There is NO planet B - what are YOU doing to save our home?

Do something today that your future self will thank you for - plant a tree

 Love your soil - it's the lifeblood of your land.

pgkevet

  • Joined Jul 2011
Re: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2019, 05:26:52 am »
I'm sorry FW but much as I approve of the idea of giving school leavers a couple of years of national service for all the reasons that it was good for their development before - it just couldn't work without the level of strict military discipline and punishment that is now no longer acceptable. Also we have all the problems of rights - gender self identification, need to provide disability access, human rights legislation - all of which may well be worthy but prevent the sort of discipline that your idea needs. The average conscript is just going to say 'eff you' or mess about and destroy stuff - try and punish them in the old military ways is unacceptable and there's not enough prison space (and prisons cause their own problems)
It'll only work when the coming collapse is bad enough that we throw the rules out.
The only way forward is a slow re-education of the public against waste and excess but with an economy dependant on capitalism and a government dependant on tax revenue (more from sales taxes than income taxes) and the current version of globalisation and companies larger than many economies it's not in the interests of gov to rock the boat. Example - china has some right as a developing country to post stuff at subsidised rates and at the sme time is a dictatorship that can enslave its workers. To stop being undercut by cheap chinese stuff we could stick animport tariff and promptly trigger another feud. We don't have the clout of the US to make it stick and we have made ourselves dependant on chinese tech and export markets.
Imagine the backlash if we did the right thing and put a huge import tariff on Windows software to stop that money going abroad and gave everyone a fully functional subsidised version of Linux (linux bulldog, LinuK?) or heavily taxed Apple products or even tried to bring in a genuinely fair case of 'if its sold in britain then the real profits get taxed in britain' law.
I'm going to stop because I can go on a long time in this vein...Bercow already signed up for loads of £5 talks and articles, Blair as an example of the ultimate money making politico (it was £100 for a pic with him)/ Boris being paid £5K per newspaper article before he was PM let alone all the sums handed out to mates as advisers on projects...


Perris

  • Joined Mar 2017
  • Gower
Re: Brain's gone into overdrive. What do you think of this?
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2019, 07:08:44 am »
we need to fix the accountancy laws and profession first, so that shell companies are gone and legalized theft and fraud are reduced

 

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Ark Farm Livestock Movement Service

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2024. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS