NFU Mutual Smallholding Insurance

Author Topic: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep  (Read 431 times)

Reecebevan12

  • Joined Jun 2018
Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« on: March 07, 2019, 06:46:32 pm »
Evening everyone

We have a small flock of sheep and currently have a ewe that lambed on Monday in bonding pen. I want to turn them out but have limited grazing due to other livestock already out there.

I wormed the ewe after she lambed and wanted to turn her out with lamb in the field with the pregnant ewes but read somewhere not to turn wormed sheep out onto pasture with non wormed pregnant sheep.

Is this true and if so can someone explain why please?


Thanks in advance!
Voss Electric Fence

shep53

  • Joined Jan 2011
  • Argyll
Re: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2019, 01:02:08 pm »
Adult sheep in fit condition have an amount of immunity to worms but when they  lamb they lose this for a short period and can put out large amounts of worm eggs onto the grass which can cause problems to lambs later in the season .  Modern thinking is that ewes should not need wormed at all or if worming  then do not worm all only the leanest /poorest ones

bj_cardiff

  • Joined Feb 2017
  • Carmarthenshire
Re: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2019, 06:58:28 am »
I always worm my ewes 6 weeks pre-lambing and again at lambing. I think at those times they are under stress and it seems to me that they can be pulled down by a heavy burden. I don't worm throughout the year. Maybe a month or so after weaning if one or 2 aren't picking up as quickly I'd worm them?

Your fields will probably carry a worm burden - unless your cross grazing with cattle or horses, so there really isn't any such thing as a 'clean pasture'. Its not best practice to turn wormed and non-wormed sheep out, but IMO I don't think it'll make  massive difference in the long term.

Buttermilk

  • Joined Jul 2014
Re: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2019, 07:21:14 am »
I always worm my ewes 6 weeks pre-lambing and again at lambing. I think at those times they are under stress and it seems to me that they can be pulled down by a heavy burden. I don't worm throughout the year. Maybe a month or so after weaning if one or 2 aren't picking up as quickly I'd worm them?

Your fields will probably carry a worm burden - unless your cross grazing with cattle or horses, so there really isn't any such thing as a 'clean pasture'. Its not best practice to turn wormed and non-wormed sheep out, but IMO I don't think it'll make  massive difference in the long term.
This is over worming and the reason that there is resistant worms.

Best practice nowadays is if worming then leave 10% of sheep unwormed and turn back out onto the wormy pasture for a couple of days before moving onto fresh.

Backinwellies

  • Global Moderator
  • Joined Sep 2012
  • Llandeilo Carmarthenshire
    • Nantygroes
    • Facebook
Re: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2019, 07:40:37 am »
I only worm my adult ewes as I let them out post lambing ….. and this is to reduce worm burden for lambs. 

I suspect the reasoning behind not turning ewes and lambs out with pregnant ewes is the same … could be large worm burden for lambs?
Linda

Don't wrestle with pigs, they will love it and you will just get all muddy.

Let go of who you are and become who you are meant to be.

http://nantygroes.blogspot.co.uk/
www.nantygroes.co.uk
Nantygroes  facebook page

bj_cardiff

  • Joined Feb 2017
  • Carmarthenshire
Re: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2019, 09:47:41 am »
This is over worming and the reason that there is resistant worms.

Please explain?

I don't see how that is overworming? pregnant ewes are wormed 6 weeks pre lambing and turned back out onto their existing pasture and penned up and kept in the barn for a few days post lambing before being turned out onto fresh fields with their lambs?



SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2019, 09:54:29 am »
I guess the lambs won’t be eating a lot of grass for the first week or three, so maybe it wouldn’t be too big an issue?  You’ve wormed the mother, so she won’t be shedding eggs, pregnant ones won’t be shedding much until after they lamb - whereupon you’ll worm them.

Lots of farms, including all three I’ve lived on, sometimes leave some lambs in the field with their mother and the group they’ve been with all along - maybe it’s the group of singles, maybe it’s the last six or nine ewes in a group that was much bigger at the outset, or whatever.  And my whole fleece flock up north stayed pretty much together all year round, ranging over their 25 acres of mixed pasture and woodland. 

So I wouldn’t get too stressed about it ;). Sure, if you have the setup, it’s ideal to put the newly wormed mothers and their new lambs onto fresh pasture, that didn’t have lambs on it last year if possible.  But if you haven’t, just put them where it makes sense.  Sounds like you have other livestock, so you probably manage to do a bit of rotational grazing, where each species eats the worms of the last incumbents, so your pastures are probably pretty clean anyway.
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2019, 10:43:39 am »
Quote
pregnant ones won’t be shedding much until after they lamb

I've always wondered about this. Clearly most farmers will worm after lambing, because that's most convenient for them. However, if we're lambing outside, when would be the optimum time?

Our ewes don't get stressed by being gathered or dosed, so we could really do it any time.
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

Buttermilk

  • Joined Jul 2014
Re: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2019, 10:49:32 am »
This is over worming and the reason that there is resistant worms.

Please explain?

I don't see how that is overworming? pregnant ewes are wormed 6 weeks pre lambing and turned back out onto their existing pasture and penned up and kept in the barn for a few days post lambing before being turned out onto fresh fields with their lambs?
Are the pregnant ewes fecal egg counted first?  Then worming again 6 weeks later with no FECs.  If no FEC how do you know if there are any resistant worms?  Are you using the same drug each time?  You really need to talk to your vet about this as needing to worm so often is a sure sign of a problem.

pharnorth

  • Joined Nov 2013
  • Cambridgeshire
Re: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2019, 11:01:14 am »
As @Buttermilk says. It is confusing as advice has changed over the years as more evidence and studies have been done. The gap between your two wormings is short and if the first dose was needed and effective the second dose should not be. Worth a conversation with your Vet. I aim to do FEC pre tupping, pre lambing and dose if needed.

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2019, 11:05:35 am »
Quote
pregnant ones won’t be shedding much until after they lamb

I've always wondered about this. Clearly most farmers will worm after lambing, because that's most convenient for them. However, if we're lambing outside, when would be the optimum time?

Our ewes don't get stressed by being gathered or dosed, so we could really do it any time.

Sorry,  just had to remove formatting.  On my screen, things with additional formatting don’t work correctly when quoted.  I guess I ought to mention that to @Dan
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2019, 11:08:19 am »
Okay, so now I can read your question, Womble!

Well, I’m not a vet, so I’m going by what I’ve read too.  But what I’ve read says, if I’ve understood it correctly, that the stress and hormones of lambing itself - parturition - causes a massive release of worm eggs.  So worming them before lambing isn’t useful, I think.

But I’m very happy to be corrected by those who know their veterinary physiology better than I!
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

Womble

  • Joined Mar 2009
  • Stirlingshire, Central Scotland
Re: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2019, 11:25:03 am »
Apologies for the formatting - blame Chrome.

This is one of those things people state in forums and you read about in books, but when I think about it more deeply, I start to wonder.

For instance, if it's the stress of lambing that causes a reduction in the ewe's natural defences, and allows worms to multiply / release eggs (not sure which?), then surely worming a week or two before lambing would be best?  That way you've cleared out any worms the ewe is already carrying (and they can't start releasing eggs in the run up to lambing), but equally any new ones she's picked up won't be producing their own eggs for a while yet.

Do you see what I mean?

EDIT: See attachment for excerpt from "Veterinary Parasitology, G.M. Urquhart et al".
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 11:37:46 am by Womble »
"All fungi are edible. Some fungi are only edible once." -Terry Pratchett

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2019, 11:34:23 am »
I do see what you mean but have assumed the worms are dormant, hence impervious to drugs, until awoken by the hormonal rush.  But that’s pure conjecture, i think, just me trying to make sense of what I’ve read!

We need one of our vets or other biologically informed members to help us here  :eyelashes:
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

SallyintNorth

  • Joined Feb 2011
  • Cornwall
  • Rarely short of an opinion but I mean well
Re: Mixing wormed ewe with lamb, with non wormed pregnant sheep
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2019, 11:36:15 am »
I see your excerpt and am none the wiser!  Lol.  I used to be able to read and comprehend that sort of stuff, but it’s all a very very long time ago now...  :-\
Don't listen to the money men - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing

Live in a cohousing community with small farm for our own use.  Dairy cow, beef cattle, pigs, sheep for meat and fleece, ducks and hens for eggs, veg and fruit growing

 

Wormed my sheep- is there anything wrong

Started by Declan

Replies: 3
Views: 1329
Last post April 28, 2010, 03:43:52 pm
by Freddiesfarm
mixing flocks and sheep scanners

Started by TheSmilingSheep

Replies: 4
Views: 1252
Last post January 22, 2015, 10:41:04 pm
by Tim W
Mixing Horned and Unhorned Sheep

Started by Muntjac

Replies: 7
Views: 440
Last post September 07, 2018, 10:24:32 am
by SallyintNorth
Mixing breeds of sheep together/also Cowped experience

Started by Marti615

Replies: 11
Views: 1467
Last post June 14, 2017, 11:57:11 am
by Marti615
Pregnant ewe - one lamb, no afterbirth

Started by Sarahjane610

Replies: 9
Views: 1351
Last post January 14, 2017, 03:48:45 pm
by jward

Forum sponsors

FibreHut Energy Helpline Thomson & Morgan Time for Paws Scottish Smallholder & Grower Festival Little Peckers

© The Accidental Smallholder Ltd 2003-2019. All rights reserved.

Design by Furness Internet

Site developed by Champion IS